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CITY OF LAWRENCE, KANSAS
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LAWRENCE FAIR HOUSING ORDINANCE
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50th ANNIVERSARY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
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Interview of Robert Casad
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October 24, 2016
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MR. ARNOLD:
Today is October 24th, 2016.
I
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am local historian Tom Arnold interviewing Dr.
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Robert Casad in his apartment at Presbyterian
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Manor in Lawrence, Kansas, for the City of
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Lawrence Fair Housing Ordinance 50th Anniversary
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Oral History Project.
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At the time the ordinance passed in July,
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1967, Dr. Casad was a law professor on the faculty
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of the University of Kansas Law School in
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Lawrence.
Sir, to start off why don't you just tell me
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a little bit about your background, you don't have
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to go into too much detail and what you were doing
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in Lawrence in the mid to late 1960s.
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DR. CASAD:
Well, I came here from law
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practice in Minnesota to be on the faculty.
I had
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been at the University of Kansas as a student, got
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my A.B. and M.A. here, and then went to Michigan
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Law School and practiced law briefly in Minnesota,
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and the opportunity to become a professor opened
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up and I came down here.
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come back to a place that I liked.
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Kansan and have spent virtually all my life here.
It was an opportunity to
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What else would you --
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(14:35:43)
I am a native
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MR. ARNOLD:
So by the mid 1960s you were
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actually a professor teaching law at the law
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school at K.U.?
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DR. CASAD:
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MR. ARNOLD:
Yes.
Okay, great.
How would you
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describe the city at that time, in the '50s and
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'60s, and the racial environment and what forms of
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discrimination were apparent?
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DR. CASAD:
Well, of course it was much
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smaller, and as far as the racial environment,
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there was segregation in movie theaters.
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that had pretty much vanished by the late '60s.
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That is something we accomplished in student
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politics when we were students, we got them to at
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least allow black people to attend movie theaters
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that did not have balconies, and that was an
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accomplishment then.
Well,
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But there was a swimming pool here in
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Lawrence, and I believe it was a municipal
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swimming pool, but when agitation began for racial
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equality I believe they sold the swimming pool to
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private enterprise so that they wouldn't be forced
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to desegregate the swimming pool.
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Ottawa had a swimming pool and Baldwin had a
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public swimming pool, neither of which were
At the time
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segregated, but Lawrence was segregated.
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I don't think the schools were technically
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segregated, although virtually all of the black
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students went to either Pinckney or Woodlawn or
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New York School, grade schools.
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know much about the junior highs.
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think.
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that time, just trying to think.
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West and South and Central Junior Highs were
I don't really
I'm trying to
I think there was only one junior high at
Yes, I think
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organized somewhat later, as I recall, but I'm not
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positive about the dates.
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already existing by 1960.
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They may have been
The high school was not segregated, although
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seems to me that black students were discouraged
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from participating in the athletic events because
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I rarely saw them performing for Lawrence High.
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The high school I went to in Wichita was not
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segregated, although the grade schools in Wichita
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were segregated up until the eighth grade and
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after that -- no, up until the ninth grade.
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that they, black students, went to the public high
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schools, there were two then in Wichita, North and
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East, but Lawrence was surprisingly very racially
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segregated at that time.
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You would think a city founded by the
After
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abolitionists would have been much more willing to
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be in the forefront of desegregation, but Lawrence
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wasn't, and there was great resistance to
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ultimately building a public swimming pool for
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that principal reason.
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campaign to get a public swimming pool in
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Lawrence.
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(14:40:38)
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MR. ARNOLD:
We had to have a similar
Right.
The first protests
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regarding the swimming pool were in 1960 and a
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group that was involved with those protests, or at
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least was advising the African-American groups who
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were protesting, was the Lawrence League for the
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Promotion of Democracy.
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that organization?
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justice activist league.
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DR. CASAD:
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MR. ARNOLD:
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DR. CASAD:
Were you involved with
It was kind of a social
No, I wasn't.
Okay.
My involvement was just my
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personal beliefs and the fact that my wife was
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actively involved in the Lawrence United Church
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Women.
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MR. ARNOLD:
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DR. CASAD:
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Right.
And they were actively involved
in trying to promote racial desegregation in
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Lawrence.
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(14:41:35)
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MR. ARNOLD:
Right.
Now, you had mentioned
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that most of the African-American students went
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to, in elementary school, Woodlawn, which is in
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North Lawrence, New York, which is in East
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Lawrence, and then Pinckney, which serves parts of
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the Pinckney neighborhood in Old West Lawrence, so
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it was pretty evident in terms of segregation that
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those were the areas --
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DR. CASAD:
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MR. ARNOLD:
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Yes, uh-huh.
-- where the majority of
African-Americans lived.
DR. CASAD:
Residential, there was de facto
residential segregation.
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(14:42:02)
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MR. ARNOLD:
Right.
Now, to a significant
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degree that segregation was sustained because of
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real estate practices that real estate agents, if
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an African-American came to town looking for
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housing, even if they could afford to live
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anywhere they would tend to steer them towards the
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African-American neighborhoods.
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something people were aware of at that time?
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that kind of a --
Was that
Was
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DR. CASAD:
Oh, I think they were, and in
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fact in some parts of the city the, in fact in
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West Hills, where we ultimately bought a house in
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1968, there were racially restrictive clauses in
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the covenants of the deeds.
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them have covenants running with the land that
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prevented the sale of that land to persons, I
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think they even included Jews in there, that
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people had to be white Christians in order to live
The property, all of
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in that neighborhood, and those, you know, later
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developed areas, most of them did have racial
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covenants in the properties, so I don't know how
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many people who weren't actively involved were
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aware of it but I certainly was, and it was
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evident just from looking at the city where black
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people had to live.
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(14:44)
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MR. ARNOLD:
What would you say at that time
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were the most obvious or known impediments to
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bringing about change?
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racial attitudes of a certain established group of
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residents of the city or was it other factors, or
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was it just kind of the national environment, that
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Lawrence was just indicative of the nation?
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DR. CASAD:
Was it certain, just
Well, I think Lawrence was
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indicative of the nation.
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probably a little bit advanced over a lot of
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places, but I think it was the fear that real
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estate prices would plummet if they allowed
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African-Americans to live anywhere except in those
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areas where they were already contaminated, and I
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think that was probably one of the principal
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forces behind the continued practice of race
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segregation in everything.
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If anything it was
Businesses were afraid that they'd lose
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customers if they opened their stores, and
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restaurants especially, to black people, but I
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don't know, I can't remember exactly how much of
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that, of racial segregation continued in the
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restaurants by that time.
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but I'm not, I really am not certain when the
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racial segregation in the restaurants was ended,
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probably not until 1964, the Civil Rights Act.
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(14:46:05)
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MR. ARNOLD:
Right.
I think it probably did
Well, some of it changed
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to a degree in the late '50s after -- I don't know
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whether you ever have heard of the story of Wilt
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Chamberlain and four other African-American
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athletes [actually three other athletes].
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DR. CASAD:
Oh yes.
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MR. ARNOLD:
-- going to the chancellor and
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saying, "If you don't get the restaurant owners
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downtown to open their businesses up to us we're
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gonna transfer out of K.U.," and --
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DR. CASAD:
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MR. ARNOLD:
Yes.
-- some change was brought about
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because of that, which shows you how much prestige
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Wilt brought to the program, and --
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DR. CASAD:
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MR. ARNOLD:
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DR. CASAD:
Yes.
-- how that -I do remember that when a
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basketball team would go and have dinner together
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before games or something like that LaVannes
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Squires, who was the first black athlete allowed
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to participate on university varsity teams, was
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not allowed to eat with the other team members and
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Phog Allen himself required the owner of the
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Jayhawk Cafe, which was where they liked to eat,
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which is right down there on Ohio Street at 14th,
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to permit LaVannes Squires to eat with the team.
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Yes, I remember that.
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though, I think.
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(14:47:35)
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MR. ARNOLD:
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believe.
That was in the '50s,
Right, late '50s.
'59, I
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Now that's an example of how K.U. students
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certainly had some influence in bringing about
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change in the city, but what's also obvious when
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you read about the history of the groups that were
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advocating for change was the involvement of
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people like yourselves, K.U. faculty members.
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you find that to be the case, that many of your
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colleagues, in addition to yourself, and their
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spouses often were often interested in pursuing
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change and supporting these organizations that
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were advocating for social justice?
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DR. CASAD:
Did
I think that, yes, members of the
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faculty were generally sympathetic with
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desegregation, but I don't remember how active
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most of them were in that regard, but I'm sure
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they voted for the measures that would tend to
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desegregate the city whenever issues came up like
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that.
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I know the churches were actively involved in
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helping to desegregate the city, to promote racial
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equality.
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what you were talking about, C-O-R-E?
Committee on Racial Equality, is that
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MR. ARNOLD:
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DR. CASAD:
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MR. ARNOLD:
CORE was -Yes, yes.
That's --
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DR. CASAD:
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MR. ARNOLD:
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DR. CASAD:
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I remember that as a student.
Right.
I don't remember them involved in
this.
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(14:49:24)
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MR. ARNOLD:
Yes, many faculty members were
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involved in things like, or their spouses, in
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League of Women Voters, the Fair Housing
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Coordinating Committee, the United Church Women,
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but, as you say, in addition to the faculty
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members and spouses the churches also I think you
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often found being very heavily involved in some of
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these types of organizations.
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DR. CASAD:
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(14:49:50)
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MR. ARNOLD:
Uh-huh.
And then the other one that I
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had mentioned earlier, the League for the
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Promotion of Democracy, which was active from the
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late '40s until about '64, also pursued those
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types of issues and had quite a bit of faculty
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involvement.
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Would you say that, was there any, did you
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ever sense any resentment on the part of long-time
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residents of the city with faculty members wanting
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to stir things up and bring about change, --
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DR. CASAD:
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MR. ARNOLD:
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Oh yes.
-- did you ever sense that?
And
how would you describe kind of -DR. CASAD:
I think there was always some
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tension between the town and gown that -- and I
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don't know, I can't put my finger on specific
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instances that would give me that feeling but I
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tended to get the idea that people in the city
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resented these outsiders coming in and trying to
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change their community, and I think the
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Journal-World wasn't especially sympathetic to the
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changes, although, as I recall, they were never,
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they never actively attempted to oppose it.
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As example of our -- I was, I was invited to
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write this article here, and I don't remember if
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it was by the Journal-World or whether the
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Journal-World invited the Committee on Fair
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Housing to submit some kind of an article and they
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designated me to do it, I can't remember the
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circumstances.
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(14:51:50)
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MR. ARNOLD:
Right.
Yes, there were actually
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seven articles that were published in a series in
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February of 1967.
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obviously, and there were six others that were
You authored one of them,
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either authored by specific individuals or
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authorship wasn't attributed but all kind of in
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favor, examining different aspects of the fair
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housing issue and arguing in favor.
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to ask you if you recall how that --
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DR. CASAD:
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MR. ARNOLD:
I was going
Who were the other -One was a sociology professor, I
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don't have the names with me, but I think three of
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them were professors in addition to yourself, but
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it appeared they were all members of the Fair
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Housing Coordinating Committee, so it looked as if
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it was something that the committee had decided to
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put a series of articles together to kind of, as
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sort of a side track while the Human Relations
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Commission was crafting the ordinance to --
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DR. CASAD:
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(14:52:49)
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MR. ARNOLD:
Uh-huh.
And I'm wondering if you recall
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what the intended target audience of those
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articles was?
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Was it just to hopefully try and --
DR. CASAD:
Just the community at large, I
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guess, to make sure they understood the issues.
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It's not somebody trying to stir up their, trouble
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for them.
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if you happened to be black and were trying to
There was a lot of trouble here already
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eliminate or alleviate some of that.
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(14:53:21)
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MR. ARNOLD:
Right.
Do you recall also in
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the same time frame the Fair Housing Coordinating
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Committee also pursued a signature campaign and
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they got over a thousand people in Lawrence to
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sign a pledge that they supported fair housing?
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DR. CASAD:
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MR. ARNOLD:
I don't remember that.
Okay.
It was actually in, the
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city has actually mapped out the location because
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everyone, it was published in the Journal-World
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and everybody also provided their address and the
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city actually found very broad-based support when
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you looked at where all these people lived,
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including many, many of them in all-white
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neighborhoods, --
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DR. CASAD:
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MR. ARNOLD:
Uh-huh.
-- so it was pretty obvious that
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a fair number of citizens of Lawrence had no
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qualms about having African-American families
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living in their neighborhoods.
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Do you think that, do you have the sense that
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there was fairly broad-based support in the
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community for fair housing?
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DR. CASAD:
I don't really have much sense
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for that.
I think it was something that we --
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(Phone ringing)
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Some robo call.
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We didn't feel a lot of support from anybody
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other than those that were actively involved in
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it, but I didn't see any organized opposition
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except to the extent that the realtors perhaps
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were sub rosa an organized group that opposed it.
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(14:55:04)
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MR. ARNOLD:
Right, yes.
Do you recall how
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the Fair Housing Coordinating Committee came
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about?
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organization of a number of different [groups].
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Were you involved at all in their [activities] and
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who decided we need this coordinating committee to
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pursue fair housing?
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DR. CASAD:
I know it was kind of an umbrella
I have a feeling that I was but I
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don't remember that, that I was -- I don't know in
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what capacity.
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that committee.
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willing to do the work.
I'm not even sure that I was on
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(14:55:51)
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MR. ARNOLD:
I just was involved because I was
I think you and your wife
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attended a number of the, well, the Human
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Relations Commission meetings, along with many
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other members of the Fair Housing Coordinating
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Committee.
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Dulin, who was in charge of the committee?
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the youth pastor [of Plymouth Congregational
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Church].
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7
Do you remember Reverend Richard
DR. CASAD:
The name I remember.
He was
I don't
have a recollection of the person.
8
(14:56:13).
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MR. ARNOLD:
Okay.
I was just curious.
Your
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wife I know was involved with United Church Women
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and the Lawrence League of Women Voters and they
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both were organizations that were concerned about
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fair housing.
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DR. CASAD:
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MR. ARNOLD:
Uh-huh.
Was she there representing them
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at these meetings or was she really there on an
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individual basis?
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DR. CASAD:
No, I think she may have had some
official capacity.
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MR. ARNOLD:
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DR. CASAD:
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(14:56:43)
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MR. ARNOLD:
Okay.
I'm not positive but --
Right.
And what got both of you
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interested in getting involved in support of this
25
issue?
Any particular concerns or --
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DR. CASAD:
Yes, just our personal beliefs, I
think.
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(14:57)
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MR. ARNOLD:
Okay.
Was there a sense among
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the groups that were supporting this that the
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ordinance could make a real difference?
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DR. CASAD:
Well, we hoped it could.
There
8
was also a feeling that how are you going to
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enforce this?
How are you going to enforce it?
10
And the enforceability was a matter that people
11
were concerned about because they didn't want to
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have to use strongarm methods if they didn't have
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to and so that was a factor people were worried
14
about, but -- and if you're not going to enforce
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it what good is it?
16
that kind of discussion.
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(14:57:51)
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MR. ARNOLD:
You know, that, there was
I think a year before the Fair
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Housing Coordinating Committee brought the
20
proposal for a city ordinance up to the Lawrence
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Human Relations Commission the State of Kansas had
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considered a fair housing law but it had not
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passed.
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to the City Council the disappointment in the fact
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that the State had not taken up the issue?
Was part of the motivation in pushing it
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DR. CASAD:
2
(14:58:16)
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MR. ARNOLD:
I don't recall that.
Okay.
Do you remember off the
4
top of your head any particular other individuals
5
who you remember working with that played kind of
6
an important role in pushing the issue forward and
7
drafting the ordinance?
8
9
DR. CASAD:
Well, the only people I recall
specifically were Ann Moore and her husband, Tom
10
Moore, and Fred Six, and those are the ones that I
11
worked -- I worked with Fred basically, he's the
12
only one I really recalled, because my role was in
13
drafting the ordinance and I probably, I collected
14
sample ordinances from other towns, university
15
towns and other towns that had them to use as
16
guidelines to draft the local ordinance here and I
17
think I may have been one of, if not the
18
principal, one of the principal writers who
19
prepared it.
20
think before the council because he was very well
21
known in the community.
22
well known and respected and he himself was an up
23
and coming practicing lawyer so he was the one to
24
promote it certainly, and he did.
25
Fred was the one who promoted it I
(15:00:32)
His parents were very
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MR. ARNOLD:
But I know you all used for kind
2
of your primary model the Iowa City, Iowa,
3
ordinance.
4
Do you recall why?
DR. CASAD:
I don't recall why except that we
5
may have thought that was closest to the situation
6
that we found ourselves in here.
7
(15:00:51)
8
MR. ARNOLD:
9
10
It sounds as if you
intentionally targeted university towns, thinking
there would be the closest similarity?
11
DR. CASAD:
12
MR. ARNOLD:
13
DR. CASAD:
I think we did.
All right.
But I think there were some other
14
towns involved, but not just the university towns,
15
but I don't remember exactly what all we did.
16
(15:01:10.
17
MR. ARNOLD:
Right.
Did you all have a sense
18
when you, when the coordinating committee made the
19
proposal to the Human Relations Commission and
20
then they took it up and the ordinance was drafted
21
did you have a degree of confidence that this
22
would be passed by the City Commission?
23
think they'd be receptive to it?
24
25
DR. CASAD:
Did you
I thought so by that time.
I
think there was enough feeling of receptivity
�20
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somewhere along the line and I thought in the
2
hands of Fred, that it would, he could convince
3
them.
4
(15:01:48)
5
MR. ARNOLD:
Did you think that it would sell
6
primarily on the legal arguments or do you think
7
that moral arguments would sway them or some
8
combination?
9
DR. CASAD:
Well, I --
10
MR. ARNOLD:
Or the kind of arguments you
11
even made in your article, which is if we want to
12
alleviate poverty and other social problems among
13
African-Americans housing is one area that's a key
14
to that?
15
DR. CASAD:
16
started there.
17
something.
Well, let's go back to where you
I was about to respond to
18
MR. ARNOLD:
19
DR. CASAD:
Okay, the legal or moral?
Yes.
I think we felt that if it
20
were emphasized that this is not a legitimate
21
basis for discriminating in residential housing,
22
that the other issues would fall into place.
23
moral would follow along.
24
(15:03:04)
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MR. ARNOLD:
The
Did you have a sense that, in
�21
1
addition to feeling that the City Commission would
2
be receptive did you have a sense, again, that the
3
community would be receptive to this, other than
4
obviously the real estate agents, who had a vested
5
interest?
6
DR. CASAD:
Well, I had, I guess I had some
7
doubts as to how enthusiastic the community would
8
be but once we got it on the books they were, I
9
thought it was, it worked fairly successfully.
10
(15:03:44)
11
MR. ARNOLD:
Now why do you think fair
12
housing was an issue that a number of groups kind
13
of coalesced around and felt like that was a topic
14
that should be pushed forward and an ordinance put
15
in place to try --
16
DR. CASAD:
Well, it was, nationally that was
17
a, there was a great deal of emphasis on that.
18
There had been some Supreme Court decisions that
19
made it clear that that was not a legitimate basis
20
for segregating people and that the, we felt that
21
the ordinances would be upheld in the courts, but
22
you had to have an ordinance.
23
(15:04:38)
24
MR. ARNOLD:
25
Right.
Were you involved at all
in efforts at the state level to push through a
�22
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state, similar state law, which I don't think
2
passed until 1969, but did you get involved in
3
that?
4
5
DR. CASAD:
I don't recall being involved in
that.
6
(15:04:49)
7
MR. ARNOLD:
Okay.
Do you remember at the
8
time when the ordinance went before the City
9
Commission and first the proponents made their
10
case and then the opponents argued against it,
11
which, as you've already pointed out, was really
12
only the real estate agents, do you remember what
13
the substance of their argument against it was?
14
15
DR. CASAD:
No, I don't have any specific
recollection.
16
MR. ARNOLD:
17
DR. CASAD:
Okay.
I can assume what their argument
18
was but I don't specifically remember what they
19
said.
20
(15:05:24)
21
MR. ARNOLD:
Right.
In addition to the legal
22
argument in favor of that you've already talked
23
about I know a number of people also appeared
24
before the City Commission, African-Americans like
25
Jesse Milan, who had been a victim of housing
�23
1
discrimination.
2
DR. CASAD:
3
MR. ARNOLD:
4
Uh-huh.
Do you think their presence was
important in reinforcing --
5
DR. CASAD:
6
MR. ARNOLD:
7
DR. CASAD:
Oh, I think so.
Okay.
Jesse was well, well received in
8
the community and people knew he was not anyone to
9
fear.
10
Yes, his participation I thought was very
important.
11
MR. ARNOLD:
12
DR. CASAD:
13
Good.
I don't remember who else but
there were others.
14
(15:06:17)
15
MR. ARNOLD:
Two other things that may have
16
helped sway the commission.
The vice chancellor,
17
James Surface, wrote a letter to the City
18
Commission in support of the ordinance, arguing
19
that it fully conformed with university housing
20
policy, and then also the basketball coach, Ted
21
Owens, wrote a letter and said that he fully
22
supported it and kind of gave as an argument in
23
favor of it, you know, when he goes out to recruit
24
athletes, and particularly African-American
25
athletes, he often makes the case to their parents
�24
1
that Lawrence is a town that they would want their
2
son to live in and play sports in and so he felt
3
that this was a strong reflection on the, you
4
know, reputation of the town.
5
you think the City Commission would have been
6
swayed by kind of those university positions?
7
DR. CASAD:
To what extent do
Well, I think they were because
8
they were well stated and certainly people like
9
Ted Owens was, the community certainly wants to
10
have a good basketball team and at that time I
11
remember there was a, I remember there was about
12
that time a reaction against, by some of the most,
13
you know, ardent segregationists that they ought
14
to change the name of the Jayhawks to the Black
15
Hawks because we're getting too many negroes on
16
the basketball team, but of course they were the
17
only ones who were any good and so that helped to
18
break down the attitudes in the community of
19
people that just didn't like black people.
20
(15:08:20)
21
MR. ARNOLD:
Right.
And Fred Six told me
22
when I interviewed him that he thought that the
23
fact that Lawrence was a university town and the
24
university's influence, you know, attracting
25
diverse groups of professors from different areas
�25
1
and different backgrounds, as well as a diverse
2
student body, certainly helped change town
3
attitudes and made it, helped to make it possible
4
for things like the Fair Housing Ordinance to pass
5
do you think that's --
6
DR. CASAD:
7
(15:08:54)
8
MR. ARNOLD:
9
July of '67.
I think that's accurate.
The ordinance finally passed in
Later that year the bond issue to
10
build a municipal swimming pool finally passed
11
after a couple of unsuccessful efforts.
12
recall any advocacy for that that you or
13
colleagues of yours were involved in to push for
14
-- because I understand it was a pretty close vote
15
that time it finally passed.
16
DR. CASAD:
Do you
I know my wife was involved in it
17
and I know our own personal -- we took our
18
children to Baldwin mainly to go swimming.
19
were neighborhood swimming pools around in various
20
neighborhoods and some of them were not segregated
21
but the public pool, to the extent that the
22
Jayhawk Plunge was the public pool, everybody
23
assumed it was, it was segregated and we wouldn't
24
go there and support it, but I'm sure my wife was
25
somehow involved in that promoting the swimming
There
�26
1
pool ordinance, but I don't remember myself being
2
actively involved in it.
3
(15:10:29)
4
MR. ARNOLD:
Okay.
So those two issues were
5
addressed, and obviously fair housing certainly
6
didn't bring about change overnight, but a couple
7
years later, in 1969, then continuing into 1970,
8
there was quite a bit of unrest in the town and on
9
campus, some of it related to the war in Vietnam
10
but also some of it related to racial injustices.
11
Did you have, or can you share any of your
12
perspectives on that violent two-year period and
13
what things were like in town and what you think
14
triggered that level of violence?
15
DR. CASAD:
The worst period was '69 and '70
16
and that year I was on leave at UCLA and things
17
were just as bad at UCLA.
18
Angela Davis was on the faculty and did a great
19
deal of agitation that made a lot of people angry,
20
so we had issues of that nature even at UCLA, but
21
I understand that year there was fire in the Union
22
building and one of the local cops shot a black
23
student, killed him, and so there was a lot of,
24
lot more ill feeling I guess here because it was
25
more concentrated than where we were in west L.A.
That was the year that
�27
1
When I came back I remember I was, I ran for
2
judge, for the district judge.
When Judge Frank
3
Gray retired there was no incumbent in the
4
position and I -- at that time we ran as party
5
nominees, that was before the judicial reform, and
6
I guess I was the last person to run as a Democrat
7
for a judgeship in this district and this was an
8
issue people were interested in, and I would have
9
to say that I believe that I carried the city of
10
Lawrence narrowly but in the whole district my
11
opponent, Jim Paddock, was, he was out, he got,
12
outvoted me for, by a large majority and so I was
13
not elected, but it was a -- I did make that
14
attempt to assert myself as a person in the
15
community instead of just a professor.
16
(15:13:58)
17
MR. ARNOLD:
Right.
Were you involved, other
18
than your involvement in the fair housing
19
committee and in assisting to push that ordinance
20
through were you involved in any other community
21
groups that were pushing for various types of
22
change that you remember?
23
DR. CASAD:
I know I was on the traffic
24
commission but there were no particular issues of
25
social nature involved there, it was just
�28
1
2
controlling the traffic flow.
I don't recall being involved in other civic
3
issues until -- well, I guess -- I don't -- I just
4
don't remember any.
5
defeated for the judgeship I decided I'm going to
6
have to be a professor and settle down and do what
7
I can here and so from then on I was more
8
concerned about promoting my career, I guess, than
9
promoting other issues in the community.
10
(15:15:18)
11
MR. ARNOLD:
I became -- after I was
During the 1960s obviously
12
nationally and down to the local level a number of
13
laws were passed, from the Civil Rights Act to the
14
Fair Housing Ordinance in Lawrence, that made a
15
number of different forms of discrimination
16
illegal, but obviously in addition to putting
17
those laws in place changing attitudes among the
18
public in general is equally important.
19
see, oh, from the 1970s on in your many years
20
living here in Lawrence a fairly rapid change, a
21
slow change?
22
towards racial relations, towards discrimination,
23
evolved over the years?
24
25
Did you
How do you think that attitudes
DR. CASAD:
Well, I think the national,
legislation at the national level promoted it
�29
1
nationwide and that in turn was reflected in,
2
probably within 10 years there was quite a bit of
3
change here in the community, and by 1970 I'd say
4
it was much better in terms of the relations
5
between the blacks and whites.
6
Segregation was largely eliminated, official
7
segregation, and so on.
8
basically, though, it was a reflection of action
9
at the national level.
10
(15:17:12)
11
MR. ARNOLD:
I don't know, I think it
Did you feel like you could look
12
back later, reflect back on the passage of the
13
Fair Housing Ordinance here and see that it
14
brought about changes in Lawrence, at least over
15
time?
16
17
DR. CASAD:
Well, I don't know, I can't put
my finger on cause and effect --
18
MR. ARNOLD:
19
DR. CASAD:
Right.
-- but from that time things
20
began to improve in terms of racial relations
21
fairly rapidly.
22
(15:17:50)
23
MR. ARNOLD:
In reflecting back on that
24
period and the role you played in bringing about
25
the Fair Housing Ordinance, bringing it to
�30
1
fruition, what would you say you were most proud
2
of in terms of the role you played?
3
DR. CASAD:
Well, I guess that's about the
4
only one that I did play much of an active role in
5
is the ordinance, that ordinance, and I do, I did,
6
I think a large part of the drafting was done by
7
me to get the materials together and decide on
8
what should go in it.
9
great length, but I guess that would be my major
I discussed it with Fred at
10
achievement would be the drafting of that
11
ordinance.
12
(15:18:49)
13
MR. ARNOLD:
Okay.
Kind of reflecting back
14
in that period of your life and your involvement
15
in that and kind of your observation, if you were
16
going to talk to a group of young people today
17
about how to bring about change what kind of
18
advice would you give them in terms of, you know,
19
looking at how change came about in different ways
20
in the 1960s, which was a very activist period,
21
what advice would you give them if they were
22
seeking to bring about change today?
23
DR. CASAD:
Well, I certainly was never as
24
sympathetic with violent demonstrations and I
25
really don't, I would not advise people to do
�31
1
that.
2
without it, but I don't know how effective this
3
would have been if there hadn't been some
4
agitation elsewhere in the country in the '60s
5
that did involve some active, well, some coercive
6
measures, like sit-ins and things like that.
7
I don't know how effective you can be
I always felt that if we can state the
8
arguments clearly enough, then we'll have to
9
depend on people's conscience, and I guess we
10
stated them clearly enough in this case without --
11
we didn't have to do any sit-ins or blocking
12
anything.
13
(15:20:58)
14
MR. ARNOLD:
Do you think -- and I think
15
you're absolutely right, I think this is a great
16
example of where a group of concerned citizens and
17
citizens groups came together, identified an issue
18
that they felt strongly about and made a very
19
strong case for it and succeeded.
20
like timing helped you out because of what was
21
going on both in the city and nationally, if you
22
had tried it three years earlier it might not have
23
gone through?
24
25
DR. CASAD:
Do you feel
Well, this did not happen -- it
stretched over several years, as I recall.
�32
1
MR. ARNOLD:
2
DR. CASAD:
Right, yes.
It wasn't overnight.
I don't
3
remember exactly when we started on that but I
4
have a feeling it was around '64 or '5.
5
6
7
8
MR. ARNOLD:
I think '64, you're right, was
when I think that committee formed.
DR. CASAD:
Yes.
So it took three or four
years actually before it ever came to fruition.
9
(15:22:04)
10
MR. ARNOLD:
11
end of my questions.
12
you'd like to share or anything I didn't ask that
13
you wanted to talk about?
14
DR. CASAD:
Well, sir, I have come to the
Are there any other thoughts
Oh, I think you've covered it
15
pretty well.
I really don't have that much
16
personal recollection, you know, it was just, I
17
just remember working on this ordinance and doing
18
a few things to promote it, but other than that I
19
didn't really do much.
20
MR. ARNOLD:
Well, I think you played a very
21
important role and the arguments you set forth in
22
the article you wrote that obviously helped sway
23
the public, because, interestingly, there was not
24
-- there were a couple of letters to the editor
25
after it passed but very little outward public
�33
1
opposition, other than the arguments that the real
2
estate agents made, and even then only two of them
3
showed up to state their opposition to it, so I
4
think you all made a very good case and wrote a
5
very good ordinance.
6
7
So if you don't have anything else I'm
finished.
I appreciate your time.
8
DR. CASAD:
9
MR. ARNOLD:
10
DR. CASAD:
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Okay.
Thank you so much.
Well, thank you.
*****
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
City of Lawrence Fair Housing Ordinance 50th Anniversary Oral History Project
Subject
The topic of the resource
Discrimination in housing -- Kansas -- Lawrence -- History
African Americans -- Segregation -- Kansas -- Lawrence -- History
Lawrence (Kan.) -- Race relations -- History
Description
An account of the resource
<p>On July 18, 1967, Lawrence mayor Richard Raney signed into law Ordinance 3749, which provided fair housing protections to the citizens of Lawrence and predated the passage of the federal fair housing ordinance by almost a year. The purpose of this oral history project, sponsored by the City of Lawrence to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the ordinance, is to document and capture the memories, roles and issues surrounding the passage of Ordinance 3749.</p>
<p>In May 1961 the Lawrence City Commission established an interracial Lawrence Human Relations Commission (LHRC) to “further amicable [race] relations” and “investigate…practices of discrimination” within the city. Separately, in 1964 various community organizations, including the NAACP and church groups, formed the Lawrence Fair Housing Coordinating Committee (LFHCC). Working together, the LHRC and the LFHCC submitted a proposed fair housing ordinance to the Lawrence City Commission in April 1967 seeking to address discriminatory practices in the sale and rental of homes in the city that effectively perpetuated patterns of racial segregation. Although strongly opposed by the Lawrence Real Estate Board representing local agents, the Fair Housing Ordinance passed the city commission on July 18, 1967. As its stated purpose the ordinance aimed “to provide for the general welfare of the citizens of Lawrence by declaring discriminatory practices in the rental, leasing, sale, financing or showing and advertising of dwelling units, commercial units or real property to be against public policy, and to provide for enforcement thereof.”</p>
<p>Approval of Lawrence’s Fair Housing Ordinance predated the signing of the Federal Fair Housing Act by nine months and preceded passage of the Kansas Fair Housing Act by nearly three years. This landmark piece of civic legislation, promoted by a diverse group of concerned residents of a university town that viewed itself as an example of American values to outsiders, including foreign students, and aspired to embody the ideals of its Free-State legacy, addressed discriminatory practices in housing, providing means for victims to seek redress and imposing penalties on violators. The origins, development and importance of this citizen-inspired movement warrants examination and interpretation as the city approaches the 50th anniversary of the passage of the Fair Housing Ordinance of 1967. <br /><br />Interviews for this project were conducted by Thomas Arnold in the summer and fall of 2016.</p>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
City of Lawrence (Lawrence, Kan.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016
Relation
A related resource
<p>Click <a href="https://soundcloud.com/lawrenceksaudio/sets/50-years-of-fair-housing-in">here</a> to access the audio recordings of the interviews in this collection.</p>
<p>A selection of the interviews were also recorded on video. Click <a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzt8e_efB6wWS-BHMpGWKW46fyHPtfKPZ">here</a> to access the video recordings of the interviews in this collection.</p>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Arnold, Tom
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Casad, Robert
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
0:49:00
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview of Robert Casad
Subject
The topic of the resource
Discrimination in housing -- Kansas -- Lawrence -- History
Segregation -- Kansas -- Lawrence -- History
Lawrence (Kan.) -- Race relations -- History
Ordinance 3749 (Lawrence, Kan.)
Description
An account of the resource
Oral history interview with Dr. Robert Casad, who was a law professor at the University of Kansas in the 1960s and who was involved in drafting the Fair Housing Ordinance that passed into law in Lawrence, Kansas in July 1967. This interview was conducted by Tom Arnold on October 24, 2016, as part of the Lawrence Fair Housing Ordinance 50th Anniversary Oral History Project.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Casad, Robert
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Lawrence Fair Housing Ordinance 50th Anniversary Oral History Project
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
City of Lawrence, Human Relations Division (Lawrence, Kan.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
10/24/2016
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Arnold, Tom
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This Item is protected by copyright and/or related rights. The public may freely copy, modify, and share this Item for noncommercial purposes if they include the original source information. For other uses you need to obtain permission from the rights-holder(s).
Relation
A related resource
<p>Click <a href="https://soundcloud.com/lawrenceksaudio/robert_casad_24oct2016?in=lawrenceksaudio/sets/50-years-of-fair-housing-in">here</a> to listen to the audio recording of this interview.</p>
<p>The Spencer Research Library at the University of Kansas is the official repository for this collection of oral histories.</p>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
CasadInterview102416.pdf (transcript)
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lawrence (Kan.)
1950s - 1967