https://s3.amazonaws.com/omeka-lplks/original/62f4722b6af40d084f937f586cc8e7bf.pdf c258207d23611c06f08423e835766f50 PDF Text Text 1 1 2 CITY OF LAWRENCE, KANSAS 3 4 LAWRENCE FAIR HOUSING ORDINANCE 5 50th ANNIVERSARY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT 6 7 8 9 10 11 Interview of Ronald Dalquest & Donald Dalquest 12 November 9, 2016 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 �2 1 (9:37:17) 2 MR. ARNOLD: Today is November 9th, 2016. I 3 am local historian Tom Arnold interviewing 4 brothers Ronald and Donald Dalquest at the 5 Lawrence Public Library in Lawrence, Kansas, for 6 the City of Lawrence Fair Housing Ordinance 50th 7 Anniversary Oral History Project. 8 At the time the ordinance passed in July, 9 1967, Ron and Don were serving as City of Lawrence 10 police officers. So what I'd like to start off 11 with is have both of you just tell me a little bit 12 about your backgrounds and what brought you to 13 Lawrence in the mid 1960s. 14 So Ron, why don't you start off. 15 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Okay, Don came in 1965, 16 December, '65, and he came back to Junction City, 17 we was both born and raised in Junction City, and 18 he was telling me all these stories about what he 19 did on the Police Department and I said, you know, 20 fight and get paid for it? 21 I'm all for that. And I asked him if they would hire twin 22 brothers and he said he didn't know, he would 23 check with the chief. 24 Troelstrup. 25 made out my application, and they interviewed me Chief at that time was Bill And so I came down in August of '66, �3 1 and I had to take the MMPI test, and that was your 2 aptitude test, you know. 3 After I took it the chief told me that the 4 professor up at K.U. said, told the chief that he 5 knew that they would try him to find out, you 6 know, if he knew what he was talking about and he 7 said, "You got another officer up there that 8 filled out the same application and did the same 9 test," and then the chief says, "No, they're 10 11 identical twin brothers." And there was only about two questions that 12 we missed. 13 complete? 14 his and so he said no and I was married at the 15 time so I said yes, and I can't remember what the 16 other question was, but there was only two or 17 three, you know, that was different. 18 One of them was is your sex life And Don was single when he filled out So they hired me on September the 23rd, 1966, 19 and I worked for the Lawrence Police Department 20 for 27 1/2 years, retired September the 23rd in 21 '93, went to work for the U.S. Marshals Service as 22 a court security officer and worked for them until 23 January the 8th, 19 -- no, 2014. 24 and three months for them. 25 MR. ARNOLD: Okay. Worked 20 years All right. Don? Sounds �4 1 like you're the first one to come to Lawrence. 2 What brought you here from Junction City to become 3 a police officer? 4 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Well, I got out of the 5 Air Force. 6 got out in November, '65, and I started applying. 7 I knew I wanted to be a policeman. 8 9 I joined the Air Force in '61 and I MR. ARNOLD: Is that because your -- Ron was telling me earlier your father had been a police 10 officer in Junction City and then became an 11 armourer on the base at Fort Riley. 12 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 13 MR. ARNOLD: Right. So was it kind of because you 14 were just sort of following in his footsteps or 15 was it based on experience you had in the Air 16 Force? 17 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes, you know, yes, he 18 always talked about the Police Department down 19 there and stuff. 20 out in November and so I came and started applying 21 around, and I had a friend who had moved up here 22 and he said, "Why don't you apply up here in 23 Lawrence?" They wasn't hiring when I got 24 And I came up here and I talked to Chief 25 Troelstrup, talked to him for like two hours. He �5 1 didn't have any openings so he said, "Sorry, just 2 don't have any openings." 3 So I applied in Kansas City and in 4 Leavenworth and so I was back home there and I 5 read in the Topeka Daily Capital that Lawrence was 6 hiring so I came back up here and talked to Chief 7 Troelstrup and he says, yes, he says, they had 8 three guys quit and go out there to Sunflower 9 {Army Ammunition Plant] making more money. 10 So he took me upstairs and I took my MMPI, 11 took my, did my physical, and then I think it was 12 week later I did an interview, and I know one of 13 the questions was, you know, says, "The only thing 14 you've ever done is went in the Air Force, the 15 only job you held?" 16 a job since I was eight. 17 is just what you been doing the last four years. 18 I was in the Air Force." 19 Said, "No," I said, "I've had I think on your question So anyway, they interviewed me and hired me. 20 Came to work here in November, '65, and they asked 21 me if I could drink and I said, yes, I could, and 22 they sent me around with the detectives for a week 23 to check on the bars, see if they was selling 24 liquor, you know, in the 3.2 bars, and so I caught 25 one of them, Dynamite Club out on 23rd, but nobody �6 1 2 3 4 knew me from around here so -MR. ARNOLD: So you could do a little undercover kind of work? MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Did undercover. Matter 5 of fact, they sent me in on one of the first 6 prostitutes that we busted down here on Mass, so 7 nobody knew me, and they told me come in dressed 8 up like a college student. 9 I did, and we got her. But yes, it just, you know, my dad was in law 10 enforcement and when I was in the Air Force I was 11 an air policeman. 12 MR. ARNOLD: 13 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 14 MR. ARNOLD: 15 16 Okay. And so -- It was a pretty natural transition for you? MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes. Did police -- I 17 knew I couldn't be a policeman until I hit 21 and 18 so I joined the Air Force because they had that 19 specialty code of air police, so I did it, I 20 enjoyed it, and I came up here and, like I say, I 21 had a buddy and then Troelstrup hired me and I 22 went on from there. 23 (9:44:59) 24 MR. ARNOLD: 25 Okay. Describe the Lawrence police force in that time frame, how large it was. �7 1 I assume there was no campus police at the time, 2 it was just one police force for -- 3 4 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: The campus police was actually security. 5 MR. ARNOLD: Okay. 6 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes. They didn't 7 really have any law enforcement. 8 crime up there we would have to investigate it or 9 we'd have to come up there and take a report. 10 think they was actually just door shakers on 11 security. 12 MR. ARNOLD: 13 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: 14 15 16 17 If they had a Okay. Moomau, Chief Moomau when he come in. MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes. Chief Moomau, and I think he had been a Highway Patrolman and stuff. Yes, our Police Department, we had a 18 three-district plan. 19 Massachusetts out to 15th Street. 20 East Bottoms and North Lawrence. 21 everything south of 15th Street. 22 (9:46:17) 23 MR. ARNOLD: 24 25 I 121 was everything west of Okay. 122 had the 123 district was And how many officers total, roughly? MR. DONALD DALQUEST: I think we had �8 1 something like maybe 30. I know that 122 2 district, was two of us in there. 3 had two. 4 there. 5 so that was about all we had. 121 district 123 district only had one person in And you had a sergeant and a lieutenant, 6 You'd have the three-district plan, then 7 you'd have a backup car and so sometimes when the 8 guys was off or somebody called in sick you was 9 running two districts, one north and one south. 10 Fifteenth Street was the divider. 11 (Phone ringing) 12 That was Ron's phone that went off. 13 But anyway, sometimes the dispatcher would 14 call in sick, we only had one dispatcher, and the 15 dispatcher, if they called in sick, why, then you 16 was down to one car sometimes, sometimes two, two 17 people. 18 We didn't have any jailers. 19 over here at 745 Vermont. 20 Department was. 21 That's where our Police So it was just a, you know, local, local 22 Police Department. 23 (9:48:04) 24 MR. ARNOLD: 25 Our jail was Okay. So we'll get into talking a little bit later in the interview about the �9 1 events in '68, '69, '70, when things got pretty 2 exciting in Lawrence. 3 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 4 MR. ARNOLD: Right. And one of the things that we'll 5 talk about, because you all discussed it about a 6 month ago at the Final Friday program over at 7 Watkins, about how a pretty small Police 8 Department was fairly stressed by the amount of 9 things that were going on in that time frame. 10 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Right. You know, when 11 you have a 24-hour business and, you know, you 12 only got, I think it was like four or five of us 13 that was working, when I first came on we was 14 working a 44-hour work week. 15 what was it, I think you got six days off a month, 16 and so then to go to a 40-hour work week they had 17 to hire more people, and that wasn't until, I 18 think, '73. 19 MR. ARNOLD: 20 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: We got, let's see, Wow. But we had no Handy 21 Talkies so on communications everybody was on 22 39-58 and 39-70, 39-58, the K.U. Police 23 Department, Lawrence Police Department, K.U., or 24 Douglas County Sheriff, and all the other 25 sheriffs' departments was all 39-58. �10 1 (9:49:34) 2 MR. ARNOLD: 3 4 5 6 And those are radio frequencies used in your car? MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Radio frequencies, right. And I think it was around '67 we got, '67 we 7 got new frequencies, which was high band, and we 8 could go 10-55, which is scramble, and so we could 9 scramble it and people with monitors couldn't 10 monitor it. 11 MR. ARNOLD: Interesting. 12 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: But, you know, when I 13 first came here we had two Fords and two Chevies 14 and they didn't have air conditioning in them and 15 I know Chief Troelstrup had told the city 16 commissioners that they was either going to have 17 to pay for our clothing cleaning or put air 18 conditioners in the car so they decided in '67, 19 '67 I think we got air conditioning in our 20 vehicles. 21 But, you know, it was one of those things 22 where you just, if you got a call, you know, if 23 you'd stop a vehicle, we called that 10-45 and 24 you'd stop the vehicle and you'd have to turn on 25 your P.A. system, so when you got out of the car �11 1 you'd turn on your P.A. system, get up there and 2 talk to the people, and then if a call came in 3 you'd have to go back to your car and answer it, 4 then go back up there and give them their driver's 5 license back and say, "Well, you lucked out this 6 time." 7 8 But, you know, that was just one of the things that had to happen. 9 MR. ARNOLD: 10 Right. MR. DONALD DALQUEST: But you was the only 11 one that were -- there might be two of you there 12 on any type of a call so you basically just was 13 out there by yourself. 14 (9:51:49) 15 MR. ARNOLD: You just had to handle it. Let me ask both of you, and 16 since, Don, you have been talking we'll just 17 continue with you to start with and then we'll 18 switch over to Ron, but when you came to Lawrence 19 in that time frame kind of describe the town for 20 me. 21 your answer both, you know, was there a lot, much 22 crime or was it pretty quiet or if there was crime 23 what, was it kind of low level stuff? What was Lawrence like then? And include in 24 And then the other thing I really wanted you 25 to kind of describe is, you know, what the racial �12 1 environment was like, what kind of segregation, 2 and kind of compare it a little bit to what you 3 were used to from coming to Junction City, which 4 was an Army town, which probably had a lot more 5 diversity in that regard, so if you can kind of 6 cover all that in one answer, and take as long as 7 you need. 8 9 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Okay. Yes, when I came here, matter of fact my dad had told me that 10 Lawrence had a good Police Department even back in 11 the '40s when he was on the Police Department. 12 You know, Junction City was more rough and tough 13 because they had a lot of GIs out there. 14 population was 18,000. 15 out there and so they had to -- but they had the 16 MPs to help them. They had 18,000 soldiers 17 MR. ARNOLD: 18 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 19 on the Police Department. 20 The Right. We never had that here When I first came to town here they put me in 21 the East Bottoms and North Lawrence. 22 predominantly black. That was 23 Sorry, my voice is cracking up. 24 But, you know, I got to know the people down 25 there and talking to them and stuff, but, yes, we �13 1 didn't have a lot of blacks in the other part of 2 town. 3 little bit but predominantly they was in the East 4 Bottoms and North Lawrence. 5 We had some up on Sixth Street here a They had the Green Gables down there and they 6 mostly stayed around the Green Gables. 7 black bar. 8 (9:54:06) 9 MR. ARNOLD: 10 11 That was a And where was that? MR. DONALD DALQUEST: That was down there on East Ninth. 12 MR. ARNOLD: 13 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: East Eighth. 14 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes, I'm sorry, East 15 Okay. Eighth. 16 MR. ARNOLD: Okay. 17 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Been Eighth and New 18 York, but that was about the only bar that they 19 had. 20 The Southern Pit was there at 19th and Mass. 21 Indians would congregate all in the Southern Pit. 22 That was the closest one to Haskell. 23 they also had one there right there at 19th that 24 was, can't remember the name of that, but it was 25 where the Yellow House is now, or used to be. You had Haskell out there for the Indians. The And then �14 1 MR. ARNOLD: Right, right. 2 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: But, you know, there 3 was like 1,800 students and stuff. 4 didn't have a lot of crime but we had burglaries 5 and thefts. 6 MR. ARNOLD: 7 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 8 9 10 You know, we Right. We didn't write a lot of reports. (9:55:36) MR. ARNOLD: I assume violent crime was 11 fairly rare, maybe a bar fight or that sort of 12 thing? 13 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Well, you know, you 14 used to have some guns involved, you know, just 15 like a card party. 16 to pull out a pistol and it had about a six or 17 seven-inch barrel, ol' Al had, and by the time he 18 could get it out of his pants the other guy had 19 already hit him over the head with a whiskey 20 bottle. One card party this guy tried 21 MR. ARNOLD: Okay. 22 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: But, you know, we 23 didn't have a lot of homicides, not until later 24 on, we started getting some homicides, but 25 Lawrence, you know, bar fights, stuff like that �15 1 there. 2 MR. ARNOLD: Right, right. 3 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: K.U. students against 4 the home guys, the Indians, you know, against the 5 locals, sometimes you had some of that, but 6 predominantly the Indians kept to themselves. 7 K.U. students came through town, but, see, when I 8 first came here all the students had to have a 9 sticker in their back window for the University of 10 Kansas. If you caught somebody here without the 11 sticker you knew that they wasn't going to K.U. or 12 they was in violation. 13 card, then you'd call K.U. P.D. and they'd come 14 down and ticket them on that for not having their 15 car registered. If they had a K.U. ID 16 Haskell students couldn't have a car. 17 MR. ARNOLD: 18 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Interesting. They had to live in the 19 dormitories. 20 year, they could live off campus if they was 21 married, but, you know, that was probably the 22 biggest thing. 23 The ones in their second or third You know, as far as prejudice goes against 24 the blacks, I didn't get to see that because I 25 wasn't black, you know, but I knew that they �16 1 didn't have a swimming pool. 2 asked for swimming pools and stuff. 3 they didn't have that until later on. 4 they complained to you about this and that but 5 there's nothing we could do about it. 6 MR. ARNOLD: 7 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: You know, You know, Right, right. 8 first line of defense. 9 MR. ARNOLD: 10 You know, they'd You know, we're the Right. MR. DONALD DALQUEST: And so they'd come up 11 and say, "Well, how come we don't have this?" 12 never really seen prejudice. 13 about it, but in Junction City we had a, very 14 diverse because of Fort Riley. 15 MR. ARNOLD: 16 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: I You know, I'd heard Right. And so blacks marrying 17 whites, they brought Germans back, German wives, 18 they was white girls, and -- but, you know, at 19 that time you could look on their military ID card 20 and they was a white female but it said black 21 female. 22 MR. ARNOLD: Interesting. 23 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Because they didn't 24 want the Germans to marry a black over there, come 25 over here, and then the white guys wouldn't know �17 1 that they had been married to a black guy, and, 2 you know, man, they had, you know, just stuff like 3 that there that went on. 4 When I went in the service, basic training 5 down there, and we had whites, blacks, in our 6 platoon, or our flight, and one kept calling the 7 other one an N word, you know, white guy was -- 8 and they was from Alabama, you know, and so one of 9 them had been in the church with Martin Luther 10 King, the black guy had, and the white guy was on 11 the outside of it when they burnt the church, you 12 know. 13 MR. ARNOLD: Wow. 14 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: And so the northern 15 blacks said, "Hey, we'll take care of him for 16 you." 17 don't want you guys to do anything because if I 18 let you touch him I can't go back to town," you 19 know. 20 opener, you know, you think, whoa. He said, "No, don't take care of him. And, you know, you talk about an eye 21 MR. ARNOLD: 22 MR. DALQUEST: 23 (10:00:28) 24 MR. ARNOLD: 25 I Yes, yes. Never, never heard that. So you all, you were definitely, from your experience in Junction City and then �18 1 from in the military racial mixing was pretty much 2 the norm for you all but here in Lawrence you 3 generally didn't see, everybody kind of, the 4 African-Americans stayed in their own 5 neighborhoods, they went to their own bars, you 6 know, they didn't have access to integrated pools, 7 so Lawrence was definitely not a mixed community 8 by any means back in those days? 9 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Right. And if you did 10 see blacks out in the other bars and stuff it was 11 normally a K.U. student, and they, you know, 12 they'd came from out of town, but normally your 13 blacks stayed down in the East Bottoms, up here in 14 the east part of town, or North Lawrence. 15 And we had a lot of problems about the 16 Mississippi blacks coming up here and going to 17 work out there at Sunflower Ordnance, and if you 18 seen a real dark black guy he was normally from 19 Hollandale, Mississippi, and then a lot of them 20 came up here and went to work out there at 21 Sunflower, you know, had good jobs out there. 22 MR. ARNOLD: 23 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 24 25 Right. And so animosity between the local blacks and the -(10:01:56) �19 1 MR. ARNOLD: You know, that's interesting, 2 I've read that, that the African-Americans who 3 came in more recently from Mississippi and then 4 many other African-Americans who had been in 5 Lawrence since probably right, Civil War, right 6 after, -- 7 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 8 MR. ARNOLD: 9 get along very well. Right. -- that they didn't necessarily Did that add challenges to 10 your policing in that sometimes there would be 11 tension within the African-American community? 12 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes. And, you know, we 13 had black officers here and they got along good 14 down there but, you know, later on during the 15 riots and stuff they got challenged, they got -- 16 MR. ARNOLD: Sure. 17 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Threatened. 18 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Threatened. 19 call them Uncle Toms and stuff. 20 MR. ARNOLD: 21 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: They'd Right, right. But these are good 22 people here in town, had a lot of relatives and 23 stuff, so, you know, that just -- it was 24 interesting. 25 didn't know anybody, didn't know anybody here in I mean, you know, I went down there, �20 1 town. I came, lived down here on Kentucky in an 2 apartment; came down on Kentucky, went back on 3 Tennessee, down to the Police Department. 4 (10:03:15) 5 MR. ARNOLD: I assume probably the apartment 6 building you lived in wouldn't have had 7 African-Americans in it, it would have been all 8 white probably? 9 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: But, you know, we had 10 bench seats and my partner was a short guy, Lyle 11 Sutton, and I always said that across my knees was 12 written Plymouth Fury. 13 didn't even know where I was driving to, see, and 14 when I did start driving, well, then he had to 15 tell me, "Turn, turn." But he had to drive. Said, "Left or right?" 16 But I learned it and enjoyed myself. 17 (10:03:50) 18 MR. ARNOLD: Okay. I Well, I'll let you rest 19 your voice for a few minutes, since you've been 20 talking a lot, and turn it over to Ron. 21 Ron, give me your perspectives on how you 22 found Lawrence when you first got here and kind of 23 what your reactions to sort of the racial 24 environment and just kind of what kind of town 25 Lawrence was at that time. �21 1 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Well, first of all, 2 Chief Troelstrup, when he hired me he said that, 3 "If you're half as good as your brother, then 4 we'll get along just fine," and I said, "Well, I'm 5 not half as good, I'm better than he is." 6 But we never could ride together, or we 7 couldn't be on the same shift. They said we could 8 conspire with one another and maybe do some wrong 9 things or something, so we never did. In fact, 10 when Don got ready to go to the Sheriff's Office 11 they let us ride the last week together. 12 both sergeants and so we got to ride that week 13 together. 14 But Don was right. We was I was on the East 15 Bottoms, too, and North Lawrence. 16 on midnight shift, on the shift I was on, we had 17 an old lieutenant and on midnights, well, if the 18 dispatcher wasn't there one of us would have to 19 dispatch and we would split the town at 15th 20 Street, one of us run north, one of us run south, 21 and so we only had two guys out there on the 22 street. 23 Handy Talkies or any time, so you had to basically 24 handle it yourself, and, you know, sometimes you 25 had to knock a few heads, you know, and we had We didn't have backup. A lot of times You didn't have �22 1 39-58, like Don said, radio. 2 I went down to a bar fight one night, made 3 three arrests, and I had them on the floor, you 4 know, but I only had one set of handcuffs so I 5 handcuffed two of them together and as I was 6 handcuffing them guys, they was a bunch of town 7 guys and they was beating up some K.U. students at 8 the old Purple Pig down on New Hampshire Street 9 and one of them, as I was handcuffing the other 10 two together the other, third one, he bolted out 11 the back door, and so I went out. 12 I called my lieutenant, he was dispatching, 13 and I said, you know, "Can the other officer meet 14 me?" 15 said, "What do you suggest I do?" 16 didn't want them sitting in the back seat on me. 17 And he said, "Well, you're only a couple blocks 18 from the station. 19 walk them down here?" 20 And he said, "No. He's out on a call." I You know, I Why don't you just go ahead and So I did, and then I ran back to my patrol 21 car and they had taken my whip antenna and tied it 22 in a knot. 23 top. 24 the plastic covers, and tied my windshield wiper 25 blades in knots, and so of course I had to write a We had them bubble gum light bars on They had taken both the light bars off, or �23 1 report on that, you know. 2 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 3 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And we didn't know who 4 did it but, you know, a lot of the -- my 5 perspective was a little bit different than Don's, 6 you know. 7 Bottoms and Green Gables, I never was scared to go 8 into the Green Gables, and lot of officers were, 9 you know. When we was talking about the East They said don't go in there by 10 yourself, you know. I never was bothered, you 11 know. 12 was respectable to them and, you know, we got to 13 knowing a lot of the blacks and we always said hi 14 to them and I always treated people like I wanted 15 to be treated myself or somebody would treat my 16 parents, and so I treated them with that kind of 17 respect. They was always respectful to me because I 18 I told them one time, and I always figured, 19 you know, that if I could give them a break, you 20 know, I'd give them a break, but if I told them to 21 do something they'd better do it, and they knew 22 that I was in control and so, you know, that was 23 the difference back then. 24 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 25 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: You know, we didn't �24 1 have a lot but we could give people breaks, you 2 know, especially on family disturbances, you know. 3 Nowdays, you know, they want everybody arrested, 4 you know. 5 know, you have to arrest them, you know. 6 somebody slaps the other person and they leave a 7 mark, well, you gotta take them in and arrest them 8 and they have to spend the night in jail and that 9 makes for hostility between husbands and wives, 10 In fact, they've got the law where, you If you know. 11 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 12 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Right. I know they think 13 they're doing good but, you know, there's a 14 pecking order. 15 MR. ARNOLD: Yes, yes. 16 (10:09:58) 17 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: This is Don. But Ron's 18 right, you know, it used to be that you didn't 19 arrest them, all you'd do is take care of the 20 problem, and -- but, see, even the wives don't 21 want the guy arrested because that's their 22 paycheck. 23 MR. ARNOLD: 24 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 25 Right. So -- and then, of course, if the, and I had this come up, the lady �25 1 was the one that hit him with a frying pan so then 2 I had to take her in and in front of her kids and 3 everything. 4 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 5 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: And so that's where a 6 lot of officers are getting hurt is on this 7 domestic battery, that they're making us arrest 8 one of them. 9 10 MR. ARNOLD: Right. MR. DONALD DALQUEST: So I know they're 11 trying to do better for battered women, but, you 12 know, sometimes you just have to just set them 13 down, take him out of there, make sure he doesn't 14 come back that night. 15 Go ahead, Ron. 16 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Well, and a lot of 17 that, you know, I mean, we was talking about the 18 blacks from Mississippi. 19 Reverend Sims. 20 church down there at 13th and Connecticut and they 21 had a lot of the Mississippi blacks, you know, was 22 down there and, man, was they ever religious, you 23 know, and, you know, but then you had the North 24 Lawrence people, you know, and there was North 25 Lawrence blacks. They came up here with You know, he was pastor of the Then on Sixth Street, you know, �26 1 there was some blacks over there, so there was a 2 little hostility between certain ones and they 3 didn't like to mingle but, you know, they got 4 together later on and they calmed down. 5 And the same thing was with Haskell. You 6 know, you'd get out there and you had the 7 different tribes. 8 the difference between a Crow and a Comanche, you 9 know. I had a real hard time telling The only ones I knew was the Alaskan, you 10 know, the Eskimos, because they would be walking 11 around, it would be five below zero and they'd be 12 walking around in short-sleeved shirts, but, you 13 know, there was a lot of hostility out there. 14 There was a lot of knife fights, a lot of -- 15 between tribes, and there was hostility, got to be 16 real bad, and we had some on the Lawrence Police 17 Department and we had one that he was a great big 18 guy, he used to play football out there at 19 Haskell, and he walked in one night out there at 20 Lawrence Memorial Hospital and here was a little 21 guy, but he was a different tribe. 22 Comanche and our officer was a Crow. 23 He was a Boy, I mean to tell you, he come off that 24 table and they was trying to stitch him up and, 25 you know, we had problems, you know, so finally I �27 1 told the officer, I said, "Go ahead and leave," 2 and as soon as he left, you know, the guy calmed 3 down and they sewed him up and we took him to 4 jail. 5 And we had some of them that took great pride 6 in what they could drink. 7 of beer and pour a pint of wood grain alcohol, 180 8 proof, in that and then drink it and then they was 9 going, you know, bonkers, and they'd fight 10 11 They'd take a pitcher everybody. But Haskell out there had a policy that if 12 they came back -- this was before; they was in a 13 trade school, Haskell was a trade school and not a 14 junior college like they are now, but they 15 couldn't have cars and they'd go out and get drunk 16 and they'd come in the dorm out there and the 17 Haskell administration, one of the dorm guards 18 would see them and could smell alcohol on them and 19 then he'd call us and say, "This guy's drunk. 20 want him arrested." 21 We So we would have to arrest him, put him in 22 jail for drunk. Next day, why, Haskell was down 23 there and they paid the $25 bond for him and they 24 put him, they brought his clothes with him and 25 they'd packed him up and they sent him back to his �28 1 reservation, and -- but if they even smelled beer 2 on them, and they had to be in by 10:00 o'clock at 3 night, and if they wasn't in by 10:00 o'clock, 4 why, they'd call and say, "We want him arrested," 5 you know. 6 So then they turned around and one of them 7 decided that they was going to contest it and then 8 they said the police officers weren't to be 9 allowed to enforce laws on reservations, and since 10 Haskell was a reservation and Lawrence police 11 didn't have the authority to go out there and 12 arrest them, so -- and the court said, you're 13 right. 14 So then the FBI had to come out, if they had 15 a drunk call, why, the FBI had to go out there and 16 when -- we had to go out -- 17 18 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: That lasted about that long. 19 MR. ARNOLD: I can imagine. 20 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Well, then they made us 21 all, yes, then they made us all Deputy U.S. 22 Marshals. 23 (10:16:14) 24 MR. ARNOLD: 25 to -- Okay, so give you the authority �29 1 2 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: So we could enforce the federal laws, see. 3 MR. ARNOLD: Okay. 4 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And then they had to 5 get, they had to have Congress come to Lawrence 6 and Lawrence had to accept the authority, you 7 know, and once Lawrence accepted the authority out 8 there, well, then we could go out there and 9 enforce city laws, and then we didn't need the 10 U.S. Marshals badges, you know, but, you know, we 11 had all this different parties. 12 During the riots in '69 and '70, you know, we 13 had the white supremacists, you know, we had the 14 John Birch Society, we had all these vigilantes. 15 Lot of the vigilantes, you know, was individuals 16 that said, you know, hey, I've got this big group 17 of guys, we're going to come in and we're going 18 to, you know, shoot all the blacks, you know. 19 We had black people that, you know, didn't 20 want to be called black, they wanted to be called 21 negroes, you know. 22 N word, but, you know, you couldn't say "boy" or 23 you couldn't say "gal," you know, that was 24 insults. 25 None of them wanted to be the And our human relations director at the time �30 1 -- 2 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Ray Samuel? 3 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: No, before Ray. He 4 wrote a book, and this was during the riots, and 5 he was -- the book was named "How to Be a Hot Cat" 6 -- no, "How to Be a Cool Cat on a Hot Tin Roof," 7 and he had all of the police officers, he give 8 each one of us the book and it was just, you know, 9 he'd typed it up and, you know, what you're 10 supposed to do, you know. 11 know, wanted to be called negroes and, you know, 12 and some of them wanted to be called blacks, some 13 of them wanted to be called colored, you know. 14 Some of the blacks, you And the Indians, you know, they had certain 15 things they didn't want to be called, you know, 16 Indians and, you know, Eskimos didn't want to be 17 known as Indian, they wanted to be called Eskimos, 18 and Comanche was insulted if you called them 19 anything but Comanches, you know, and -- but vice 20 versa, you know, there was a lot of hostility 21 between the different groups of individuals. 22 had K.U. students, you know, we had SDS, Indians, 23 we had AIM out there, you know, AIM had come into 24 town, and we had all these individuals coming into 25 Lawrence because it was a melting pot. We �31 1 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 2 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And when you bring in 3 all these outsiders, and they was ones that was 4 causing all the hostilities, you know, and when 5 you got that kind of a melting pot in here, you 6 know, everybody was against everybody. 7 (10:19:54) 8 MR. ARNOLD: 9 Right. With you all in the small Lawrence police force caught in the middle 10 trying to keep them all apart. 11 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Yes, right, and here we 12 are, you know, we've got 35 officers at one time 13 out there in front of the high school, we 14 confronted 250 people, and we all lined up there 15 and everything else, and there was 18 officers. 16 We called in every officer we could get ahold of, 17 the night shift, midnight, swings, day shift. 18 even took them out of TSB. 19 Sheriff's Office. 20 there, we had detectives out there on the line. 21 There was 18 of us, and the only way that you can 22 make an arrest, you know, you couldn't, because if 23 you made an arrest you was going to have to take 24 two of them people and take them out, take the 25 person that you arrested to jail. We We called the We had sheriff's deputy out �32 1 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 2 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And on several 3 different incidences we had to make an arrest, you 4 know. 5 the back seat, one in the front seat with him, and 6 he drove them to jail from the high school 7 football game. 8 know -- and we had the students come in and try 9 and attack us and we set up a skirmish line and we One time Lieutenant Harris, we put three in They was all students, but, you 10 had to, actually had to hold the officers back, 11 but once we formed the skirmish line we wouldn't 12 let anybody come through and we walked them out 13 and that was the way we was trained, you know. 14 But then you had the hippies, the yippies, 15 the street people. 16 we was down there at the Watkins Museum this woman 17 come up there and she said, "Was there really 18 people out looking, you know, to shoot hippies?" 19 20 You know, the other night when MR. DONALD DALQUEST: I think she asked you, didn't she? 21 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Yes, uh-huh. 22 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And we said, you know, 23 we don't -- we didn't know them, we couldn't pin, 24 but we heard about them, you know, and we was 25 trying to be aware of them, and, you know, but it �33 1 was a scary time. 2 When we had the curfew -- 3 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 4 5 This is Don, but she says, "But I was a hippy." MR. RONALD DALQUEST: But, you know, we set 6 up, the Lawrence Police Department set up -- we 7 played basketball. 8 went out and played with the hippies, you know, 9 against the hippies. 10 We set up a basketball, and we The only real bad time we had was with the 11 Indians, you know, because, man, them are damn 12 near pro basketball players and they'll run you to 13 death. 14 court and just watched them, you know, because -- 15 and they can play basketball, and they're 16 semi-pro, you know. 17 called ourselves The Pigs, and, you know, they had 18 T-shirts that said Hippies on them, you know, and 19 then we had the blacks, you know, and they're all 20 good basketball players. 21 I stand right there in the middle of the Hell, they beat the -- and we We went down to the Community Center and we 22 challenged them all. We got our butts beat most 23 of the time, you know, but we had good times. 24 got to knowing people, and I think that's one of 25 the biggest problems they have today, you know, is We �34 1 the police officers don't go in and talk to 2 people, you know. 3 shops. 4 talking to people, you know, about what was going 5 on in the community and, you know, nowdays, you 6 know, they want to put GPSs on the police cars and 7 say, well hey, you know, you're out of your 8 district and you gotta do this and you gotta do 9 that. We used to go in the coffee I could learn more in a coffee shop 10 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 11 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: So they don't really 12 talk to people. 13 policing that we did, you know, and they're 14 running them so fast and so hard, you know, that 15 the officers don't have time to know the 16 community. 17 (10:24:27) 18 MR. ARNOLD: They don't go out and do the Right. Yes, I was going to ask 19 you, based on some things you said earlier about, 20 you know, treating people fairly and with respect. 21 It sounds to me like, and I was going to ask you 22 what kind of relationship there was between the 23 Police Department and the African-American 24 community, but it sounds like you treated them 25 like any other community in town, you got to know �35 1 people, you treated them with respect, you helped 2 them solve their problems when you could help out 3 and you had the leeway to do that, you know, you 4 got involved in community activities like playing 5 basketball, so I take it that that helped 6 alleviate a lot of the potential tensions, until, 7 -- 8 THE SPEAKER: 9 MR. ARNOLD: It did. -- of course, you got into the 10 late '60s, when then there were so many groups 11 with so many different agendas you all were just 12 kind of caught in the middle of it all. 13 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Well, you know -- this 14 is Don -- but you really look at it and when you 15 treat a person fairly and they know that you have, 16 that you gave them a break, later on if you have 17 to arrest them they won't give you that much 18 trouble, you know, but if you bum rap them, you 19 know, they understand that. 20 don't understand that you just can't make up a 21 charge, you'll lose it in court, and they have a 22 right. 23 You know, people That's what I was saying the other night down 24 there, you know, but nobody has a right to resist 25 arrest. If I make an arrest you got a right to �36 1 beat me in court, you know, sue me, go to an 2 attorney, sue me, everything, but you don't have a 3 right to resist arrest, and that's where a lot of 4 their problems are today is they resist arrest. 5 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And they think you 6 violate their civil rights. What civil rights? 7 They, they don't know what civil rights are. 8 think they do, but, you know, they say, "Oh, my 9 civil rights have been violated." 10 rights? 11 You know, you can't resist arrest. They What civil You know, the officer made an arrest. 12 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 13 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: What don't you 14 understand about that? 15 along with the officer, and if he does bum rap you 16 or he makes a fatal mistake, you know, of making a 17 bad arrest you can sue him, you can sue the city, 18 you know, he can lose his job, but if you resist 19 arrest, hey, he just made a lawful arrest. 20 what I'm saying? 21 (10:27:10) 22 MR. ARNOLD: Yes. You know, if you just go See Did you all try to 23 establish relationships with particular leaders 24 within the African-American community or within 25 the Indian American community or, for that matter, �37 1 within the white community just to try and help 2 you, you know, maintain good relations kind of 3 with the folks in the communities in general? 4 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: No. You have to 5 remember, we was just little guys ourselves and so 6 I made friends with the guys out on the street, 7 but like the leaders or the ones that wanted to be 8 leaders, they didn't want to be friends of mine, 9 they wanted to be friends of the city commissioner 10 or the mayor, stuff like that there, so basically 11 the person out on the street, the guy that I dealt 12 with all the time, that's the one I was working 13 with. 14 you know, they probably knew me. 15 They didn't know me from Adam but -- or, I think the leaders knew me but they didn't 16 want to talk to me, they wanted to talk to 17 somebody that had authority and could do something 18 for them, and, you know, that's one of the 19 problems that you have. 20 what they want. 21 the swimming pool. 22 town that was open to the public except for the 23 blacks, that was up here on Sixth and Florida, but 24 that was a private, that wasn't by the city, so 25 the city opened up a swimming pool out there at They really don't know You know, they knew they liked We had one swimming pool in �38 1 23rd and Kasold. 2 at. That's not where the blacks was 3 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 4 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Blacks was downtown, 5 East Bottoms, so they had to get transportation 6 all the way out there, but they did make the 7 swimming pool part of it but then it took time. 8 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 9 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 10 don't want time. 11 MR. ARNOLD: 12 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: A lot of times people Right. They hired Ray Samuel 13 as their human relations guy and he brought a lot 14 of civility and he would try to talk to them about 15 the police officers and also the police officers 16 about them and stuff. 17 the one that really calmed them down quite a bit. 18 I think Ray was probably But, see, they don't, some of those leaders 19 didn't have control. 20 MR. ARNOLD: 21 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Right. These other people that 22 was making the firebombs, stuff like that, they 23 didn't have control of those, so -- but they was 24 going off that hype. 25 It was like the colonel of the Highway �39 1 Patrol. 2 THE SPEAKER: Albott. 3 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Albott. He come in, he 4 said, "I settled Lawrence." He came up here at 5 noon up on Oread Street and talked to a couple 6 people. 7 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: 8 smoking marijuana cigarettes. 9 10 11 12 13 Hippies sitting there (Interrupting) MR. DONALD DALQUEST: He wasn't out there at night -MR. RONALD DALQUEST: the problem?" And he says, "What's I'm Ron. 14 (Interrupting) 15 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: 16 MR. ARNOLD: 17 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: -- Leonard Harrison? Uh-huh. Leonard Harrison at the 18 time, you know, he had these young guys, and he 19 was a radical. 20 guys, like Steven and, and -- 21 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Butch. 22 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Don't use names. He was a radical, and these young No. 23 But he had these young guys at different places in 24 town where all the young kids were at, you know, 25 the Ballard Center, the Afro House, the swimming �40 1 pool, and he stirred them all up, see, and he kept 2 them all stirred up and then they would meet 3 places, see, and then like they said, you know, 4 they got them to join the Black Panthers, you 5 know, and they're a terrorist group, and they did 6 that, see. 7 We had everything in here. We even, you 8 know, with the university up there, they brought 9 in the Ku Klux Klan, you know, set up here at Hoch 10 Auditorium, and they had to send us up there to 11 protect them and halfway through they opened the 12 doors, you know, for all these people to come 13 rushing in and then they said we're only going to 14 keep the doors open for 15 minutes and then we 15 shut the doors and we keep everybody out. 16 Hey, I said, you know, "Whatever you do," 17 Hoch Auditorium, if you've been out there, the 18 doors open out, they don't open in, so they're 19 going to shut the doors, you know, and I told 20 them, I said, "you're going to have problems." 21 I told every one of my officers up there -- I 22 was the officer in charge -- I said, "You're going 23 to have problems. 24 the outside of that door, you know, stay on the 25 inside." Whatever you do, don't get on Then they was going to chain them shut, �41 1 2 see, and then lock them. Well, once they did that here's all these 3 kids and they was trying to push in and the crowd 4 was trying to get in and they was pushing girls 5 like this up against the door, you know, and they 6 was trying to shove them through the door, and I 7 just knew that they was going to stomp all, you 8 know, these kids up there, and they said, well, 9 you know, that's how we protect them. 10 You're not protecting them kids, but if we 11 had an officer on the outside there they would 12 have killed the officer, you know, push them clear 13 through the glass doors, you know. 14 And then we had to walk them all the way out 15 to their bus so they could take them out of there, 16 you know, just real fast because they'd parked 17 them out back, you know, and we had to get into a 18 riot formation so we could protect them. 19 them people up there? 20 terrorist activities, you know? 21 well, you know, these kids gotta learn that these 22 people, what they're about. 23 (10:33:56) 24 MR. ARNOLD: 25 Klan? Why have So they talk about their And they said, And "these people" were the �42 1 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: 2 MR. ARNOLD: 3 4 Huh? This was the Klan was the people you were talking about? MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Yes. And they set up 5 there, you know, and they was talking about the 6 blacks and, you know, the Jews and everything 7 else, you know, and they're basically just a 8 terrorist organization. 9 10 MR. ARNOLD: Right. MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 11 remember, we don't -- 12 MR. ARNOLD: 13 14 clarify. And you have to This is Don again, just to Go ahead. MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes, this is Don. You 15 have to remember that we have to protect the good, 16 the bad, the ugly, and when you're standing in 17 between these two they know that we are there to 18 protect them and so they'll say other things, you 19 know. 20 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 21 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: And they agitate the 22 other group and the other group going to agitate 23 back. 24 You know, during the riots in Chicago they was 25 throwing urine and feces on the officers and when We're standing there in line and stuff. �43 1 the officers swung with their clubs, well, they 2 got pictures of them doing that, see, and so, you 3 know, they tell you not to do anything, they'll 4 spit in your face, you're not supposed to -- so 5 they gave us shields finally, but it's that type 6 of person, or people, that you have to protect and 7 then we get a bad reputation because -- 8 9 10 11 MR. ARNOLD: Right. You're just doing your jobs. MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Right, we're doing, but they should not let them come into town. 12 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 13 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Go ahead. I'm Ron. Ron. In '69 and 14 '70 they used to, you know, and especially on the 15 Chicago 7 up there, you know, the rioters come in 16 and they are prepared. 17 the camera. 18 Everything they want is They want to play up the camera. They used to take these little bags of blood, 19 see, and they would hold them in their hands. As 20 soon as the officer raised up his billy club like 21 he was going to hit them, you know, or if he did 22 hit them they would take that little plastic bag 23 and go like that and hit their forehead and the 24 blood would run down their face, see, and the 25 cameras, you know, that was -- the newspapers and �44 1 the TV cameras, boy, you know, everybody likes 2 that. 3 They get them all riled up and they bring 4 them into town, and that's what we had in '69 and 5 '70. 6 in, and then when they went into third degree 7 martial law, where they shut down the whole city, 8 you know -- did you learn about that? 9 10 You know, we had all these outsiders coming MR. ARNOLD: No. MR. RONALD DALQUEST: They had a curfew from 11 7:00 o'clock at night till 7:00 in the morning. 12 You couldn't be out on the streets. 13 be walking on the city sidewalk. 14 your yard or your front porch, in your house, but 15 you couldn't be out on the city sidewalk or the 16 city roadway, and if your wife went to Kansas City 17 and she got back after 7:00 o'clock at night they 18 wouldn't let her into town. 19 around -- 20 (Interrupting) 21 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: You couldn't You could be in She had to turn The Highway Patrol took 22 care of -- this is Don. Highway Patrol and the 23 National Guards took care of the outer perimeter 24 of town, and then we had National Guardsmen in 25 with our officers in the city, so, you know, they �45 1 filled up the patrol car and they brought deuce 2 and a halfs in to haul prisoners and, you know, 3 stuff like that. 4 But you have to remember, we never had enough 5 officers. We could block the street but we 6 couldn't block the sidewalks on either side, you 7 know, and that's standing with our arms out, 8 because there's probably eight of us, eight 9 officers, and if you brought in any other shift, 10 you know, then they didn't have any time off. 11 guys didn't have any time off, so that was, it was 12 just, you know, during the time, and matter of 13 fact, in April they brought in the National Guard. 14 (10:38:35) 15 MR. ARNOLD: 16 Our This was April of '69 or '70? '70 probably? 17 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 18 MR. ARNOLD: 19 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: '70. '70, yes. Uh-huh. And that's 20 when they firebombed the Union building, and we 21 didn't know it until we got up there. 22 a fire truck and we was up there on Louisiana 23 trying to find out -- we knew which house it had 24 came from but we was trying to get that, and they 25 brought up deuce and a halfs loaded with, full of They'd shot �46 1 troops and stuff, and then down there 15th and 2 Tennessee they closed off the road. 3 trash cans and they had rolled nails out there in 4 the road and Captain McClure brought me and I 5 think it was like a platoon of guys up there and 6 said go down there and open up that road. 7 (10:39:34) 8 MR. ARNOLD: 9 Right. They had put Now, I know this unrest, some of it was probably anti-war related, some of 10 it was related to racial grievances, but to you 11 all as police officers was it just one kind of set 12 of turmoil and violence, it didn't make much 13 difference to you which group was behind it, it 14 was just a problem you had to deal with? 15 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Right. I mean, you 16 know, you had anti-war, you had civil rights, you 17 had people coming into town that wasn't the local 18 people but because it was going on they came into 19 town to raise Cain and, you know, they had the 20 Vortex, was a -- 21 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Newspaper. 22 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: -- underground 23 newspaper up there. They told them how to make 24 grenades. 25 hot wax and you roll it with BBs and then you You take a M-80 and you put, dip it in �47 1 2 throw it at the police officers. You string piano wire between the buildings; 3 when they chase you, you know, it would cut them 4 up, cut up the police officers. 5 of that stuff, you know. 6 There was a lot They put, on Bill Garrett, they put out a 7 wanted poster dead or alive on him, you know, and 8 they used the picture that the Journal-World was 9 using to know your police officer in town. You 10 know, that's the picture that they used on Bill 11 Garrett. 12 So, yes, you know, they keep you up during 13 the day and the night and lot of times we was 14 getting like 24 hours, you know, we'd go out and 15 sleep at the high school on wrestling mats and 16 they'd wake you up every hour to go out and stand 17 in the hallway while the kids changed around, then 18 they'd give you about half an hour, an hour to go 19 home and shower, shave, and come on back, so -- 20 (10:41:51) 21 MR. ARNOLD: 22 up the Klan earlier. 23 interviewed have made mention of a Klan presence 24 in Lawrence in the mid 1960s. 25 that was visible to you all -- Let me ask you, you have brought A couple of people I've Was that something �48 1 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 2 MR. ARNOLD: 3 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: No. -- in the police force? They had -- this is 4 Ron. 5 They was mainly out of, down around Ottawa, 6 Garnett. 7 would tell us that they got the Ku Klux Klan and 8 they're going to, vigilantes, you know, "I've got 9 a group of people," you know, and that was just to 10 11 They had what they call John Birch Society. A lot of them was fake. You know, they scare people. But the citizens of Lawrence was scared. A 12 lot of the business owners, when we had a curfew 13 down there one night we had got a call down in the 14 800 block of Mass and there was a black guy 15 walking with a sack and could be a firebomb, and 16 we went flying down there, you know, and I was 17 stopping there talking to him, and this was during 18 curfew, see. 19 He wasn't even supposed to be out. Nobody was supposed to be out, and I got this 20 real funny feeling, you know, and believe it or 21 not the hair was standing up on the back of my 22 head because I knew that there was people watching 23 me and I knew that there was probably guns pointed 24 at me while I'm sitting there talking to this guy, 25 and, you know, there was three of us police �49 1 officers sitting there, and all of a sudden, you 2 know, out of the corner of my eye I see this one 3 guy step out of the dark corner of the building, 4 see, and I knew him, and he was a business owner 5 and he'd blackened out his face with military, you 6 know, camouflage and he had a black stocking cap 7 on, black clothes on. 8 on the side of him, and he's protecting his 9 business, you know, and he said, you know, He had this great big knife 10 "There's a bunch of us guys up here," and I was 11 looking and I could see people, you know, up in 12 windows, you know, and I knew that there was guns 13 up there. 14 But this black guy, he was walking down the 15 street with a sack. 16 curfew. 17 was in the maintenance and he cleaned classrooms 18 up there and that was his sack lunch, and he got 19 up to K.U. and he reported for duty, you know, and 20 they said, "Hey, this is curfew. 21 supposed to be out, you know, go back home; you're 22 not even supposed to be up here," see. 23 He didn't know about the He went up to K.U. because he cleaned, he You're not He said, "Well, you know, I come up here for 24 my job." The university's closed. So he was 25 walking back home and in his sack he had his �50 1 2 lunch. But it could have been, you know -- it come 3 real close to somebody probably shooting him. 4 he would have stopped and lit up a cigarette, you 5 know, with a lighter, you know, flicked a Bic or 6 something to light a cigarette there was no doubt 7 in my mind he'd have probably got shot. 8 MR. ARNOLD: 9 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: If Wow. And that tension, you 10 know, right there is the type of thing that was 11 going on at that time. 12 all the way around. 13 (10:45:56) 14 MR. ARNOLD: It was just really tense When did that finally start to 15 kind of resolve itself or to die out? 16 of brought all this to an end finally that tamped 17 down all this tension and the turmoil and the 18 violence? 19 20 21 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: you mean? What kind Okay, during the riots, This is Don. MR. ARNOLD: Yes. Did it just kind of burn 22 itself out because people eventually just 23 exhausted themselves or -- 24 25 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes. What happened was April we had the K.U. fire, okay, and they brought �51 1 in the National Guards. 2 three days. 3 Then -- that was like for Then after that it was July and July was at 4 the high school and also at nighttime they 5 firebombed the white house up there on Oread 6 Street. 7 Rick Dowdell got shot, so that's when they was 8 going to try to kill a police officer. 9 when they ambushed Kenny and them down here on 10 Pennsylvania, so then Nick Rice -- let's see, I 11 made detective in July so Nick Rice was, I was a 12 detective when we went up there. 13 there at Watkins Museum, that was in July. Yes. Wasn't it July? 14 MR. ARNOLD: 15 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes, it was. July That's My photo down Okay. And we went up there to 16 investigate his shooting and that's when we got up 17 there and I got hit with a brick, so -- but, you 18 know, they firebombed Judge Gray's house. 19 Johnson, you know, got shot down there on Ninth 20 Street. 21 22 23 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: That was Ron. Mildred Dan Young's house. I'm Ron. MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Afro House, you know, 24 it was down there. They claimed that one of the 25 guys got shot on the front porch, you know, and -- �52 1 but he would have had to been on his hands and 2 knees, because he was shot from downward into his 3 legs, so they thought it was somebody maybe high 4 up on the second floor had shot the gun. 5 You know, there was just turmoil. They 6 firebombed the satellite Union up there on 15th 7 and they was just building it. 8 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 9 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: They put six sticks of 10 dynamite, they put a fuse in there, they did a old 11 time, to light it they put heads of matches on 12 there and put the fuse in there, but they put a 13 cigar in there instead of a cigarette. 14 if you don't puff on it it goes out, whereas a 15 regular cigarette will burn down and ignite the 16 fuse. 17 A cigar, Summerfield Hall, they firebombed that, or 18 that was an explosion. 19 Ohio Street, that was another one. 20 Weathermen coming into town. 21 lot of intelligence throughout the community. 22 have people come in and tell you this and tell you 23 that, so there was a lot of intelligence coming in 24 but, you know, you have to prove what you know. 25 MR. ARNOLD: Bank of America up here on Right. We had You know, you get a You �53 1 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: You know, you just 2 can't jump to the gun on it, but when Skinny 3 Williams got shot, that was Sergeant [Eugene] 4 Williams, down there, they was going to try to 5 kill a police officer and they had a lot of 6 outside people coming in on that. 7 The call that came in said that there was 8 four or five people marching with guns down the 9 street and so, you know, they sent four officers 10 down there, because we knew that they was going 11 to, and they was going to walk in, so they went 12 down there. 13 They started, got off at 11th Street and 14 started walking in and they came around a corner 15 there, and that would have been at 10th, Skinny 16 got shot as he came around by the big cedar tree 17 and everything opened up, just bang, bang, bang, 18 bang, bang, bang. 19 Then that group left. The officers came 20 around. Lemon came around 11th Street over there 21 by that baseball field and as he did they opened 22 up on him so he got out and he was shooting at 23 them and Bob Merkel was in a vehicle and he went 24 past them, drove on up and went right on up to 25 where the other ambush had been set up. He got �54 1 out of the car and he went up there and trying to 2 help Skinny and, you know, they seen his vehicle 3 there and they had headrests in there and they 4 thought there was an officer was in there and they 5 just blew the heck out of that car. 6 was all shot up. 7 I mean, it I went down there and collected up ammunition 8 later on and stuff and there was all kinds of 9 stuff down there, double ought buck, you know. 10 They was prepared for war. 11 officer that we got shot at that time. 12 (10:52:50) 13 MR. ARNOLD: 14 15 But that was the only That's amazing considering how much was going on. MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes, you know, and like 16 I say, there wasn't very many officers at the 17 time. 18 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 19 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: So would you -This is Ron. But we 20 had officers, young officers that come in, just, 21 one came back from Vietnam and he was behind 22 Skinny when Skinny got shot and next morning he 23 came into the chief's office and laid his badge on 24 the table and said, you know, "In Vietnam I knew 25 who I was fighting but I don't know over here." �55 1 2 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And they, later on their intelligence, they had the KBI come in. 3 (10:53:37) 4 MR. ARNOLD: 5 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Kansas Bureau of Investigation? Yes, and do an 6 investigation and later on they found out that 7 their intention was to kill a police officer and 8 cut his head off, put it on a spear, hang it in 9 front of the Afro House. 10 MR. ARNOLD: Wow. 11 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And that's lot of it 12 from outside the community, you know, so, you 13 know, it was like Russell Means, you know, with 14 AIM, you know, he was in here and he was stirring 15 the Indians up and there was just a lot of 16 turmoil. 17 (10:54:14) 18 MR. ARNOLD: So did it finally kind of die 19 down because a lot of these outsiders maybe moved 20 on and the agitators sort of left town and -- 21 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Yes, and what they did 22 was they did brought in Menningers [Menninger 23 Foundation in Topeka] and they took a lot of the 24 different segments of the community and they took 25 them over there to Menningers and they had a �56 1 set-down powwow. 2 First thing they did was they set everybody 3 down, they had police officers, they had blacks, 4 they had hippies, they had city commissioners, 5 they had business people, they had vigilantes, 6 supposed to be, you know, they had all these 7 different segments of the community and they 8 brought them in at night and they brought out a 9 fifth of whiskey and set it down and everybody 10 kind of fixed them a drink and then they had a big 11 powwow and everybody sat around and tried to 12 figure out what was going on. 13 It really was an eye opener for the police 14 officers because we felt like, you know, it was us 15 against them, and come to find out, you know, that 16 they all -- we was the front line and, you know, 17 to get to the city commissioners they had to go 18 through us and they really didn't have anything 19 against the police officers, what they was against 20 was the establishment. 21 (10:55:40) 22 MR. ARNOLD: 23 the establishment -- Right. 24 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: 25 MR. ARNOLD: You were just symbols of Right. -- because you were the ones �57 1 2 that they were on the front lines with? MR. RONALD DALQUEST: You know, even though 3 we were sympathetic to their cause, you know, we 4 couldn't allow them to, you know, destroy the 5 establishment, you know, by tearing up the 6 businesses or tearing up, you know, the people or 7 shooting people, just like, you know, we couldn't 8 have the vigilantes shooting our community, you 9 know, we couldn't have them coming in and 10 11 destroying things. MR. DONALD DALQUEST: This is Don. Police 12 officers can't lose. 13 in chaos and so that's what, you know, people 14 going to have to, they have to realize is that, 15 you know, if you can't handle it with one officer 16 you handle it with two or three or four. 17 If we lose the community is We had to throw gas. Like I say, we couldn't 18 block the street and the sidewalk so we had to, 19 when they came up against us we threw gas, you 20 know, tear gas, and that's basically what you 21 gotta do, but if you lose, you know, you lose 22 civility. 23 (10:57:07) 24 MR. ARNOLD: 25 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: All social order is gone. Right. �58 1 2 3 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: And, you know, people get killed. MR. ARNOLD: Right. The meeting you referred 4 to, Ron, at Menningers, do you remember what the 5 time frame was? 6 or do you remember when that was? 7 8 9 10 11 And that was like in late 1970, MR. DONALD DALQUEST: It was probably, see -- because we had April, July, September. MR. RONALD DALQUEST: It was in the wintertime. MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes, I think it was 12 even January of '71. 13 (10:57:37) 14 MR. ARNOLD: 15 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: I think so. 16 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And I know the one I '71? Okay. 17 was in we had about four police officers and there 18 was two city commissioners and -- 19 20 MR. ARNOLD: So this was a series of meetings? 21 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 22 MR. ARNOLD: 23 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Right. Okay. Well, it was just a 24 two-day meeting. It was on a Saturday and Sunday 25 and you stayed over Saturday night at a hotel, �59 1 see, and you set down and then they had mediators 2 come in and they was talking about it, and we had 3 some radical blacks. 4 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: What he's talking about 5 -- this is Don -- he had one weekend here, another 6 weekend was different people. 7 MR. ARNOLD: 8 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 9 Gotcha. it out. 10 MR. ARNOLD: 11 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 12 And so they could talk Right. Because he wasn't in the same group I was in. 13 (10:58:30) 14 MR. ARNOLD: Sure. And did this seem to have 15 a positive effect in calming things down, just 16 everybody talking out their points of view? 17 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Well, apparently it did 18 because if you look at it, you know, we really 19 didn't have that much going on after that. 20 MR. ARNOLD: 21 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 22 Right. to say that it did work. 23 MR. ARNOLD: 24 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 25 You know, so you'd have Yes. But, you know, and that was like, you go back to fair housing, you know, �60 1 you look at it, they never had a, like 1600 2 Haskell, they never had that until they put it 3 down there and they put it down there -- 4 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: 255 North Michigan. 5 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Okay. But all of our 6 burglaries went down to that area, out on 23rd 7 Street. 8 here, and our burglaries changed and went on up on 9 Sixth Street. Then they went 255 North Michigan, up 10 (10:59:37) 11 MR. ARNOLD: 12 13 14 And when you say they went, this was as -MR. DONALD DALQUEST: They had housing projects. 15 MR. ARNOLD: Okay, they built projects, yes. 16 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 17 know, that's just demographics. 18 going to steal more than rich people are. 19 MR. ARNOLD: 20 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 21 And so -- but, you Poor people are Sure. I mean, that's common sense. 22 MR. ARNOLD: Right, right, yes. 23 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Right? And, but you 24 mix them in, you mix them in with good people down 25 here and good people out there and stuff and then �61 1 you have to sort them out, and I think the 2 housing, Lawrence Housing Authority has been doing 3 that more and more, you know. 4 I know one time, just talking about 1600 5 Haskell down here, a gal, K.U. student moved in, 6 moved all of her stuff in, went up to K.U., the 7 next day came back and everything was gone. 8 -- I mean everything in that house. 9 They When we found out who did it, got a search 10 warrant for her house, went down there and here's 11 all the stuff in her house, see, but we couldn't 12 tell what was hers and what else was -- so they 13 had her come down there, the victim come down 14 there, and the victim came down and said, "That's 15 my toothbrush, that's my hair rollers, that's my" 16 -- you know, and they had completely wiped her 17 out. 18 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 19 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: But it was, the person 20 that did the crime, it was her mom that lived out 21 there, not her. 22 because her mom lived out there, you know, she 23 came into that area and seen this gal leave and 24 said, pshew, burglarized. 25 (11:01:39) She didn't live out there, but �62 1 MR. ARNOLD: Would you say, though, that 2 things like the fair housing and starting to break 3 up the highly segregated areas, along with things 4 like integrating, you know, the new swimming pool 5 that was integrated, were those types of measures, 6 even though they probably came with some 7 challenges, but that they also tended to calm 8 things down just by creating mixing that led to 9 some understanding among people that made Lawrence 10 an easier community to police in certain respects, 11 even while probably introducing new challenges? 12 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Yes. 13 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes. 14 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: That was Ron. 16 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Don, too, yes. 17 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: You keep interrupting. 15 18 This is Ron. You want to talk, go ahead. 19 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: No, go ahead. 20 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: It woke up the city 21 commissioners and they knew they had to do things, 22 you know, they started listening and they started 23 -- you know, before they put in like Ray Samuel 24 and Paul, you know, human relations, and they 25 started working more, because they opened their �63 1 eyes at these meetings, you know, especially at 2 Menningers and they saw what they was actually 3 asking for, you know, and as long as we kept 4 outsiders out. 5 the major problems, you know. 6 professional people. You know, the outsiders are always These are 7 InCAR came up here, you know. 8 there in San Jose, California, you know. 9 professional, InCAR was a professional -- 10 11 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: They was out They're Can we stop here a minute. 12 (Off the record) 13 (11:04:13) 14 MR. ARNOLD: 15 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Go ahead, Ron, and continue. I think that brought 16 about a lot of the changes, you know, like the 17 swimming pools, you know, they put them down here. 18 They put in a lot more parks. 19 listening to the community, especially the blacks 20 and the other people in the community, you know. 21 They started In this fair housing, you know, they brought 22 them in. I know even for lower wage police 23 officers, you know, we got some housing, you know, 24 too. 25 the Lawrence Police Department we was only making I was out there -- when I first started with �64 1 $385 a month, and, you know, we was barely keeping 2 our head above water and we worked as much 3 overtime as we could and then if they had special 4 needs, you know, or security of some sort we 5 worked them, you know, to try and keep it up, but 6 I think that was the biggest change, you know, in 7 the city commissioners, you know. 8 I know the city commissioners that I was with 9 over there at Menningers really got an eye opener, 10 you know, and it was an eye opener for me because 11 I thought it was between me and them, see. 12 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 13 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And I thought they was 14 challenging me and, you know, they kept calling us 15 pigs and, you know, saying, you know, that we was 16 MFs and, you know, that was a direct insult to me, 17 you know, so really what they was trying to do was 18 get to the establishment, you know, and changes. 19 (11:06:15) 20 MR. ARNOLD: Right. And it sounds like what 21 those meetings accomplished is that it kind of got 22 the outside agitators out of the picture and put 23 the members of the community together and 24 discussed the real problems of the community that 25 could be addressed so everybody kind of understood �65 1 what the frustrations were and try to do some 2 things to fix them. 3 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Right. And, you know, 4 the vigilantes, the supposedly vigilantes, you 5 know, that said they had all these people and 6 everything else, that was an eye opener for them, 7 too, you know, because they was sitting there 8 thinking, you know, that we was picking on them, 9 you know, and they wanted to come in and shoot 10 everybody that they didn't like, you know, and we 11 told them, you know, that isn't what we need, you 12 know. 13 (11:07:10) 14 MR. ARNOLD: How would you characterize these 15 vigilantes. 16 and what were their motives? 17 of law and order and they were going to go after 18 anybody who was causing problems? 19 I mean, what kind of groups were they MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Were they just kind Well, there was a lot 20 of hostility, you know. When you're saying 21 vigilantes, you know, a lot of them was white. 22 Most of them was either construction workers or 23 they was anti, you know, blacks, anti-hippies, you 24 know. 25 and talked to him, you know, later on and I got to They had -- I know of one, and I sat down �66 1 know him pretty good and he said, you know, I 2 don't have any other vigilantes, I was just going 3 to get my gun and go out there and shoot some of 4 them, you know, and -- but I don't have anybody, 5 you know, that was going to go with me, you know, 6 but he says, you know, I looked at it, you know, 7 that, you know, it was a scare tactic, I was gonna 8 scare them all, you know, and if they thought I 9 was a bad guy, you know, and was going to do them 10 what they was doing to me, you know, and vice 11 versa, you know, it had, you know -- I had a black 12 guy that, you know, he went over and he was buying 13 guns in Kansas City, buying ammunition, you know, 14 and he was talking up how bad he was and he was 15 gonna shoot up everybody and everything else and 16 he finally said, you know, "Hey, you know, it's 17 just a play, you know, and I'm just a player." 18 said, "If they can try and scare me I can try and 19 scare them." 20 He But, you know, when you don't know it at the 21 time, you know, you know, it's kind of like the 22 old saying, you know, when you're up to your neck 23 in alligators it's hard to remember that your 24 first initiative was, response was to drain the 25 swamp, you know. We just had had all these bad �67 1 feelings in town and people was just really 2 creating more problems when they was trying to 3 scare one another, you know, and it's kind of hard 4 to separate the two, you know, what's really, 5 what's true and what's false. 6 (11:10) 7 MR. ARNOLD: Right. Till everybody sits down 8 together and starts actually talking to each 9 other. 10 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Yes, uh-huh, and you 11 see some accomplishments, you know, like the, you 12 know, the swimming pool wasn't a big thing but in 13 a way it was, you know. 14 day a year, you know, when they was getting ready 15 to dump all the water, you know, they would allow 16 you to, blacks to come in; now it's dogs, you 17 know, so you see it, you know. 18 blacks swimming, you know, but, you know, like one 19 day a year they could have the blacks go swimming, 20 and now they allow dogs to do it, see, and it's an 21 insult to them, you know, as a race. Before, you know, the one 22 MR. ARNOLD: 23 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: They didn't want Right. In Junction City, you 24 know, when I was up, when we was living there, you 25 know, the blacks could go swimming any time and, �68 1 2 you know, everybody was, it was more segregated. MR. DONALD DALQUEST: I want to say -- this 3 is Don. I wanted to say that I'm not for sure who 4 was on the City Commission in 1967 but I know that 5 the Police Department got quite a bit of stuff 6 there in '67. 7 Mississippi to get the 911 in Lawrence, Kansas. 8 They had to have a look into the future that that 9 would work, and we was the first one west of the We was the first town west of the 10 Mississippi to have a 911. 11 But we had good consoles put in in '67 on the 12 Police Department. 13 law in 1967. 14 (11:12:17) 15 MR. ARNOLD: 16 17 That was a basic 911. They passed the fair housing Right. They got the swimming pool bond passed in 1967 to build the public pool. MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Okay. But, you know, I 18 know that that, you know, I think you get a lot of 19 people coming through the commissions, you know, 20 so there's a lot of different people that has to 21 talk here or talk there and whatever. 22 Buford Watson didn't come until 1970, so January 23 of '70 he came on. 24 Fraternal Order of Police and we was starting our 25 police negotiations with him because we hadn't I know that I was the president of the �69 1 been getting our fair share of raises and stuff so 2 he stepped into that, I know that, and stuff, but, 3 you know, it seems like it just runs in, every 4 four years. 5 (11:13:20) 6 MR. ARNOLD: Right. You get different groups 7 come together and some of them accomplish things 8 and some of them tend to be more resistant to 9 change. 10 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Exactly right, and so 11 -- and, you know, me being just a little peon, I 12 couldn't tell you, I know that Ray Wells was the 13 city manager. 14 15 MR. ARNOLD: He was the city manager in '67, yes. 16 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 17 MR. ARNOLD: 18 Dick Raney was the mayor. He was a member of the City Commission. 19 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 20 MR. ARNOLD: 21 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 22 MR. ARNOLD: 23 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 24 THE SPEAKER: 25 I know that. Who? Dick Raney. Right. Who owned the drug store. Right. Let me see, I actually have the names of the other city commissioners. �70 1 THE SPEAKER: 2 MR. ARNOLD: 3 Black, Donald Metzler. 4 THE SPEAKER: 5 MR. ARNOLD: 6 THE SPEAKER: Of Morton Block? 7 MR. ARNOLD: -- and John Emick. 8 THE SPEAKER: 9 MR. ARNOLD: 10 Black was one of them. City commissioners were James Yes, Don. He was a -- yes. Clark Morton, -- Uh-huh. And, you know, Ray Wells was the city manager. 11 THE SPEAKER: 12 MR. ARNOLD: City manager. Milt Allen, who I think was a 13 son or grandson of Phog Allen, was the city 14 attorney. 15 16 THE SPEAKER: Yes, right. Yes, that's the son, Mitt. 17 (11:14:33) 18 MR. ARNOLD: Yes, so that -- but it was 19 interesting that many of them didn't serve more 20 than maybe one or two terms and then they'd turn 21 over and so you'd have another group to come in 22 that might not have been as progressively minded 23 in trying to bring about change, some may have 24 come in after those changes because people decided 25 that's enough change, we want to stop making �71 1 2 changes for awhile, but -MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Well, exactly right, 3 and, you know, and I'll tell you something, you 4 know, in first part of '67 we did get some raises, 5 you know, the Police Department did, we got cars 6 that had air conditioning in it, so, you know, but 7 like I say, you think about that, that they looked 8 forward into the future, like the 911 system. 9 10 MR. ARNOLD: Exactly, yes. MR. DONALD DALQUEST: And so I have to praise 11 those type of guys. When I came here I didn't 12 know anybody and, you know, that was in '65 and I 13 said, you know, matter of fact, Dick Raney -- 14 let's see, the dad -- is this the son or the dad? 15 MR. ARNOLD: This was the -- 16 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: 17 MR. ARNOLD: 18 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Okay. 19 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: The old man -- 20 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Because I stopped -- Son. -- son, yes, I believe. 21 his dad had a Cadillac that had Douglas County R1, 22 you know, and was going out North Second down 23 underneath the underpass there and was speeding 24 and so I stopped him and I didn't know who it was 25 or anything and so the son was driving and dad was �72 1 in the back seat and so I got his driver's license 2 and stuff and the dad rolls down his window and he 3 says, "Hey, listen," he says, "we're late to a 4 funeral and I told him to speed, get me there, 5 because we're late to a funeral." 6 just, could you just hold his driver's license, go 7 ahead and write him a ticket, we'll come back and 8 get it?" 9 to him. I said, "No," I says. He said, "You I handed it back I says, "I understand," I said, "but if 10 he speeds again just hit him up side the back of 11 the head." 12 driver's seat was the city commissioner, you know? 13 But yes, they was good people, they was good 14 people. Who knows the son who was in the 15 (11:17:19) 16 MR. ARNOLD: Yes. Let me ask you one last 17 question. We've been going for quite awhile now, 18 probably exhausting both of you, but tell me why 19 you think, you know, Junction City that you had 20 come from, and obviously the Fort had a big impact 21 on the fact that it was a fairly mixed community 22 without a whole lot of segregation, why do you 23 think in Lawrence, which also kind of had a 24 diverse influence from the university, but why do 25 you think Lawrence was slower to change than say �73 1 2 Junction City was? Any opinions on that? MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Well, Fort Riley, you 3 know, we had the Tenth Calvary out there and it 4 was blacks. 5 local teams and stuff like this here, and here you 6 apparently didn't have that as much, but I know 7 that -- 8 9 They used to play football with the MR. ARNOLD: So really I think what you're getting at probably is there was just a whole lot 10 more racial mixing there and so people kind of 11 knew each other, they treated each other like 12 human beings, whereas here the segregation kind of 13 put everybody in their own community and there 14 wasn't much understanding among each other, which 15 made change harder to come by when you don't 16 understand the other guy? 17 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes. See, if you talk 18 to Verner Newman or Leonard Monroe, I know they 19 was telling about stuff that I had no idea of that 20 had happened and stuff, you know, about racial 21 profiling or racial animosity in town here, that 22 they couldn't do this or they couldn't do that, so 23 I didn't know all that until I started hearing it 24 from them, and those are two guys that I really 25 honor and respect. �74 1 (11:19:29) 2 MR. ARNOLD: Right. And just to clarify, 3 Verner Newman was a fellow Lawrence police officer 4 and Leonard Monroe ran the -- 5 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yep. 6 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: City garage. 7 MR. ARNOLD: 8 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: I'll tell you -- 9 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: John Shepherd. 10 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes. -- city garage. And Verner 11 Newman, he was a lieutenant when I came here, and 12 when I was sitting outside there waiting, I'd just 13 went through my interview board and I was just 14 sitting outside there and I was just waiting, 15 sweating bullets, and he came out and he says, 16 don't worry, you've got the job, you know, and I 17 just -- big, big relief over me and stuff, and 18 I've never forgotten that, that he didn't have to 19 do that for me, you know, but he just seen I was 20 there, I was just wringing my hands and nervous 21 and stuff and so I've always had a lot of respect 22 for him, you know. 23 (11:20:30) 24 MR. ARNOLD: 25 Yes. And he was at the time one of the three African-American officers who were on �75 1 the force, I think, in that era? 2 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Right. 3 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes. 4 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: John Shepard was the -- 5 this is Ron. John Shepard was a sergeant on 6 Lawrence Police Department and -- 7 THE SPEAKER: Who was the -- 8 THE SPEAKER: Smith. 9 THE SPEAKER: Yes, Smitty. 10 THE SPEAKER: Uh-huh. 11 THE SPEAKER: Yes, Smitty. 12 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes. But -- and he 13 went to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, and 14 real nice guy, too. 15 shift with him but I worked with Newman and then I 16 worked with Shepard, too, so -- I didn't work on the same 17 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 18 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And this is Ron, but 19 Lieutenant Newman, you know, they made me 20 sergeant, I went DPS in '71 and I'd made sergeant 21 and they wouldn't pay me my sergeant's pay because 22 I was making more money than sergeants, so I was 23 acting sergeant for 13 months before I could wear 24 my stripes, because I was making the same -- more 25 money than sergeants was so until they could get a �76 1 pay raise, but Lieutenant Newman was my supervisor 2 one time, they made him a street lieutenant and 3 brought him out on the street, and I got to 4 working with him, and he taught me a lot about 5 being a supervisor and I always admired him. 6 And Sergeant Shepard, you know, was another 7 one that helped me, you know, get through, and we 8 always had good times together and, you know, but 9 one time they sent us down there to Woolworth's at 10 the counter because there was blacks sitting down 11 there at the counter and so I went down there, 12 because they wanted police to come in, and they 13 had a sit-down demonstration down there, and I was 14 talking to Sergeant Shepard and I said, "Man, you 15 know" -- he said, you know, "They won't even serve 16 me if I'm in uniform," and I said, "Well, you and 17 me go down there and we'll have, order coffee, you 18 know, I'll go down there and sit with you." 19 he never ever stirred anything up. 20 no, Ron, don't, don't do that." 21 John, He'd say, "No, And another thing, I had a house one time out 22 by me that was for sale and I told John, I said, 23 "Man, you know, this has got a real nice garage 24 and everything, you ought to go over there and buy 25 that, you know." He said, "They wouldn't sell it �77 1 to me." 2 said, "Because I'm black." He said, "I can't buy 3 over in that part of town." And I said, "You're 4 kidding me?" 5 won't sell it to me." 6 you know, I'll buy it from you." 7 And I said, "How come?" "No." You know. He He said, "They won't, they He said, "If you buy it, And, you know, I didn't have no money, you 8 know, and there was no way in hell I could buy it, 9 because I'd just bought a house, you know, and I 10 thought my house payment, you know, was $150 a 11 month and I didn't know how I was going to make 12 that, you know, but that was kind of an eye opener 13 for me, you know. 14 if you're over in North Lawrence," where he lives 15 today, and, you know -- but he couldn't come over 16 in that part of the town. And John says, "Well, you know, 17 And later on it mixed up, you know, and it 18 was just like, you know, in the old days, I say 19 the older days, you know. 20 if a husband came home and he was drunk, you know, 21 on Sunday and his wife was upset with him, you 22 know, and they get into a screaming match and 23 everything else we used to be able to take them 24 down and, you know, they'd say, "Well, I don't 25 have any money for, you know, motel room" or "I We used to be able to, �78 1 don't have anyplace to stay," you know, and I used 2 to say, okay, "I'll take you down, I'll put you in 3 one of our holding cells and you can sleep it off 4 tonight and then go home tomorrow morning," and 5 I'd be sure and let them out the next morning. 6 MR. ARNOLD: Right, right. 7 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: No charges, no nothing, 8 you know, just give them a cot and a blanket, you 9 know, and they can sleep it off and next morning, 10 you know, his wife wasn't mad at him now and -- 11 you know. 12 (11:26:03) 13 MR. ARNOLD: Sounds truly like the kind of 14 community policing they say we need more of today 15 but I guess just because of the way the 16 regulations and the bureaucracy don't let you do 17 that anymore. 18 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: See, that's one of the 19 things. 20 know, you'll ruin a guy on a DWI and, you know, if 21 the guy was close to home or something like this 22 here you'd take him home and say, "Hey, don't do 23 it again, and if you do, you know, you're going to 24 get arrested," but now we get sued if you do that. 25 I mean, you know, drunk drivers, you MR. ARNOLD: Right. �79 1 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: And it's the same thing 2 like, you know, I've had false rapes, you know, 3 had guys being accused of a rape that they didn't 4 commit, I had false rapes reported to me, you 5 know, and they came after me one time because I'd 6 had like three of them in a row. 7 said, whoa, whoa, whoa, woman's transitional 8 group, and I said, "Just sit in here, I'm going to 9 talk to this victim and I'll show you why," and so You know, I 10 she did, and of course when I interviewed her I 11 said, "Well, hey, what you told me." 12 husband, you know, I had to tell him something so 13 I told him I was raped." 14 these people excited, you know. 15 MR. ARNOLD: 16 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Oh. "Yes, but my Now you're getting Right. "Well, I didn't mean to 17 do that but he, he got very excited." 18 know, it's just one of those type of deals. 19 are perceived to be bad guys but most of the 20 police officers are just doing their job. 21 MR. ARNOLD: 22 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: So, you We Right. And I started the ASAP 23 program, Alcohol Safety Action Project in the city 24 of Lawrence, and with Bruce Beale out of DCCCA, 25 and -- but, you know, a lot of the ASAP program, �80 1 you know, was gathering statistics and reducing 2 our alcohol-related accidents and the first year 3 we reduced them 125 percent. 4 (11:28:52) 5 MR. ARNOLD: I think I'm pretty much done 6 with my questions. 7 either of you, want to add that we haven't touched 8 on that you think are important memories to share 9 about that time frame or what helped to make 10 things better in Lawrence over time, besides 11 things like the swimming pool and the Fair Housing 12 Ordinance? 13 Any other things that you all, MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Well, you know, I'll 14 tell you something. Lawrence is a good town. 15 They got friendly people. 16 made this my home and now I know a lot more people 17 than I did when I first came here, but my dad told 18 me, you know, that even back in the '40s, that he 19 always heard that Lawrence had a good Police 20 Department, good city and everything, and I've 21 worked, well, 25 and 18, almost 40 years for the 22 City of Lawrence and I don't think that there's 23 any town around, even Junction City, I would never 24 go back to Junction City, this is basically my 25 town. You know, the more -- I I think Ronnie feels the same way. �81 1 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 2 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Yes, and, you know, 3 it's been a good, it's been a good city to us and 4 we have enjoyed the work, enjoyed the people. 5 Lawrence has always been a very liberal town. 6 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 7 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And, you know, even 8 back in the days, you know, when we had the 9 Underground Railroad up here, you know, we was 10 always real, history of being real liberal and 11 helping, you know, the minorities, and even the 12 Underground Railroad, you know, this town has been 13 known for that, and Sheriff Jones's raid in 14 Lawrence and Quantrill's Raid in Lawrence has 15 always been real, a controversy town. 16 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 17 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And I think a lot of 18 the radicals, you know, come in sometime and 19 they're real jealous of the society that we have 20 here and I think that's what causes a lot of the 21 problems. 22 MR. ARNOLD: Sure. 23 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: 24 in and cause turmoil. 25 MR. ARNOLD: Right. And they'd love to come �82 1 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: But, you know, one of 2 the fantastic things about Lawrence is we had such 3 a diversity of law enforcement, you know. 4 police officer we got to work all kinds of cases 5 and have been a real enjoyable place for me to 6 live and -- 7 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: As a The reason why he knows 8 so much about the Lawrence history, when a lady 9 was killed over here, just right down the street 10 from here, and her son was living, where, up in -- 11 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Des Moines. 12 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Des Moines, Iowa, and 13 he wanted somebody to stay in there because she 14 had a bunch of antiques and everything in there, 15 so nobody would steal it, and so he was single at 16 the time so he slept in there and she had all 17 these books about Lawrence and -- 18 MR. ARNOLD: 19 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 20 Interesting. -- so he read them all while he was there. 21 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And, yes, his name was 22 Don Smith and he was a -- 23 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: What was her name? 24 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Vanera Smith. 25 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes, Vanera. �83 1 2 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: right over here in the 800 block of Kentucky. 3 4 MR. ARNOLD: that, yes. Right. I think I've read about That was like in the '70s maybe? 5 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: 6 MR. ARNOLD: 7 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: 8 One that was killed, Yes. Yes. And she was a real nice lady, but her grandfather was Josiah Miller. 9 MR. ARNOLD: Right, I know that name. 10 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: 11 there, that's Miller Estates. 12 MR. ARNOLD: 13 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: At 19th and Haskell out Right. And her 14 great-grandmother, or grandmother, I think, was 15 Mrs. Miller and when Quantrill came in Lawrence he 16 sent out scouts and the scouts come in, they 17 scouted Lawrence, and on their way back out they 18 stopped there at the Miller house and they asked 19 for food, and she never did turn away people. 20 She didn't know who they were, but she never 21 did turn away hungry people so she said, "Yes, you 22 can. 23 And so they started in the house and she said, 24 "No, no, no, I don't allow guns in my kitchen. 25 You have to leave the guns on the back porch." I'll give you, fix you something to eat." So �84 1 they unloaded their guns on the back porch and 2 they came in and she fed them. 3 Well, when Quantrill came with his raiders 4 they stopped there and they said, "Since you 5 friended my people nobody in the house will be 6 hurt as long as you stay here." 7 across 19th Street there's a little house back in 8 there and that was the caretaker's, one of the 9 caretaker's houses and he jumps on a horse and Well, right 10 starts to run to Lawrence to warn them and 11 Quantrill's Raiders shot the horse out from under 12 him. 13 wouldn't ride in there after him, you know, 14 because they couldn't see. He ran into the cornfield, and the raiders 15 MR. ARNOLD: Right. 16 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And in that history of 17 Lawrence book it said, you know, brave men are 18 seldom brutal; brutal men are never brave. 19 MR. ARNOLD: Interesting. 20 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And I thought that was 21 a good saying. But he was, Josiah Miller was the 22 owner and editor of the Free State newspaper. 23 MR. ARNOLD: 24 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: 25 Oh, that's right, yes. And he was also Miller's Produce in the 700 block of Mass and when �85 1 Quantrill and Sheriff Jones's raid, both of the 2 raiders, they stopped there at the newspaper and 3 they took, you know, they beat on the printing 4 press a little bit and took all the type, took it 5 down to the river and threw it in, you know, but 6 Mrs. Smith, Don Smith's daughter had the original 7 newspaper, the first newspaper that came off the 8 printing press and she's going to donate it to the 9 Watkins Museum. 10 MR. ARNOLD: Okay. Good. You need to come 11 down there and volunteer at the Watkins Museum. 12 You know a fair amount about local history, take 13 advantage of that. 14 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: He should. 15 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And she's got some 16 other things, and I went down and talked to Steve 17 and told him. She's going to contact me -- 18 MR. ARNOLD: Oh, good. 19 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: -- when she brings that 20 stuff in, and she was going to donate it to the 21 Kansas Historical Society and I said, "Well, we've 22 got a history museum here and they would really 23 love to have it." 24 25 MR. ARNOLD: yes. Yes, they would, absolutely, �86 1 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: And that was hanging in 2 the wall of the house over there, and also Josiah 3 Miller was a paymaster for the Union Army and the 4 militia and he had a book. 5 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: What do they call them? 6 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Diary. 7 MR. ARNOLD: 8 MR. RONALD DALQUEST: Okay. You know, of what all 9 he'd paid and everything, what the guy was, when 10 he was, left the Army what he had, and that was 11 interesting reading. 12 13 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: that you -- 14 (11:37:48) 15 MR. ARNOLD: 16 Is there anything else I think we've covered just about everything. 17 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: 18 all and everything more, huh? 19 MR. ARNOLD: Think we've covered it I mean, I think we could keep 20 asking you questions about some of the many, many 21 events that surrounded the violence in '69 and '70 22 but I think you've provided a pretty good flavor 23 of what that era was like. 24 25 MR. DONALD DALQUEST: Yes. You know, like I say, I was down there when that Dowdell got shot �87 1 and I was up there, caught a brick up there on 2 Oread, and had to check out to see if the dynamite 3 was really lit or not up there. 4 MR. ARNOLD: Right, yes. I know all too 5 often in circumstances like that the police get 6 the blame but in reality you all are just in the 7 middle of it trying to do your jobs and keep 8 people safe, and I think a lot of people don't 9 give you enough recognition and show enough 10 appreciation for that, but I want to thank both of 11 you for the contributions that the two of you made 12 to Lawrence over your many years as police 13 officers here, and you are part of the reason I 14 think Lawrence today continues to be such a great 15 town, it's because of people like you who helped 16 to shape it and make it that way, so thanks to 17 both of you, and I appreciate your time coming in 18 and sitting down with me. 19 THE SPEAKER: Well, thank you. 20 THE SPEAKER: Thank you. 21 22 23 24 25 ***** � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource City of Lawrence Fair Housing Ordinance 50th Anniversary Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Discrimination in housing -- Kansas -- Lawrence -- History African Americans -- Segregation -- Kansas -- Lawrence -- History Lawrence (Kan.) -- Race relations -- History Description An account of the resource <p>On July 18, 1967, Lawrence mayor Richard Raney signed into law Ordinance 3749, which provided fair housing protections to the citizens of Lawrence and predated the passage of the federal fair housing ordinance by almost a year. The purpose of this oral history project, sponsored by the City of Lawrence to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the ordinance, is to document and capture the memories, roles and issues surrounding the passage of Ordinance 3749.</p> <p>In May 1961 the Lawrence City Commission established an interracial Lawrence Human Relations Commission (LHRC) to “further amicable [race] relations” and “investigate…practices of discrimination” within the city. Separately, in 1964 various community organizations, including the NAACP and church groups, formed the Lawrence Fair Housing Coordinating Committee (LFHCC). Working together, the LHRC and the LFHCC submitted a proposed fair housing ordinance to the Lawrence City Commission in April 1967 seeking to address discriminatory practices in the sale and rental of homes in the city that effectively perpetuated patterns of racial segregation. Although strongly opposed by the Lawrence Real Estate Board representing local agents, the Fair Housing Ordinance passed the city commission on July 18, 1967. As its stated purpose the ordinance aimed “to provide for the general welfare of the citizens of Lawrence by declaring discriminatory practices in the rental, leasing, sale, financing or showing and advertising of dwelling units, commercial units or real property to be against public policy, and to provide for enforcement thereof.”</p> <p>Approval of Lawrence’s Fair Housing Ordinance predated the signing of the Federal Fair Housing Act by nine months and preceded passage of the Kansas Fair Housing Act by nearly three years. This landmark piece of civic legislation, promoted by a diverse group of concerned residents of a university town that viewed itself as an example of American values to outsiders, including foreign students, and aspired to embody the ideals of its Free-State legacy, addressed discriminatory practices in housing, providing means for victims to seek redress and imposing penalties on violators. The origins, development and importance of this citizen-inspired movement warrants examination and interpretation as the city approaches the 50th anniversary of the passage of the Fair Housing Ordinance of 1967. <br /><br />Interviews for this project were conducted by Thomas Arnold in the summer and fall of 2016.</p> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available City of Lawrence (Lawrence, Kan.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016 Relation A related resource <p>Click <a href="https://soundcloud.com/lawrenceksaudio/sets/50-years-of-fair-housing-in">here</a> to access the audio recordings of the interviews in this collection.</p> <p>A selection of the interviews were also recorded on video. Click <a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzt8e_efB6wWS-BHMpGWKW46fyHPtfKPZ">here</a> to access the video recordings of the interviews in this collection.</p> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Arnold, Tom Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Dalquest, Ronald Dalquest, Donald Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 2:01:54 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Ronald Dalquest and Donald Dalquest Subject The topic of the resource Discrimination in housing -- Kansas -- Lawrence -- History Segregation -- Kansas -- Lawrence -- History Lawrence (Kan.) -- Race relations -- History Ordinance 3749 (Lawrence, Kan.) Protest movements -- Kansas -- Lawrence Law enforcement -- Kansas -- Lawrence Description An account of the resource Oral history interview with Ronald and Donald Dalquest, twin brothers who were both police officers with the Lawrence Police Department at the time that Lawrence's fair housing ordinance was passed in July 1967. This interview was conducted by Tom Arnold on November 9, 2016, as part of the Lawrence Fair Housing Ordinance 50th Anniversary Oral History Project. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dalquest, Ronald Dalquest, Donald Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Lawrence Fair Housing Ordinance 50th Anniversary Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available City of Lawrence, Human Relations Division (Lawrence, Kan.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 11/9/2016 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Arnold, Tom Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This Item is protected by copyright and/or related rights. The public may freely copy, modify, and share this Item for noncommercial purposes if they include the original source information. For other uses you need to obtain permission from the rights-holder(s). Relation A related resource <p>Click <a href="https://soundcloud.com/lawrenceksaudio/dahlquest-brothers-110916-hi?in=lawrenceksaudio/sets/50-years-of-fair-housing-in">here</a> to listen to the audio recording of this interview.</p> <p>The Spencer Research Library at the University of Kansas is the official repository for this collection of oral histories.</p> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource eng Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DahlquistInterview110916.pdf (transcript) Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence (Kan.) 1965 - 1970