https://s3.amazonaws.com/omeka-lplks/original/8d8fac783ec6b037fa32122d1824f8e9.pdf 4eeeb7c47e6042f6fa989daeb7c5b052 PDF Text Text 1 1 2 CITY OF LAWRENCE, KANSAS 3 4 LAWRENCE FAIR HOUSING ORDINANCE 5 50th ANNIVERSARY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT 6 7 8 9 10 11 Interview of Homer Floyd 12 November 22, 2016 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 �2 1 (10:55:14) 2 MR. ARNOLD: Today is November 22nd, 2016. I 3 am historian Tom Arnold interviewing Mr. Homer 4 Floyd at his home in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, for 5 the City of Lawrence Fair Housing Ordinance 50th 6 Anniversary Oral History Project. 7 At the time the ordinance passed in July, 8 1967, Mr. Floyd was the director of the Kansas 9 State Commission on Civil Rights. 10 To start off, how would you describe the City 11 of Lawrence at the time you arrived there in the 12 mid to late 1950s as a K.U. student athlete, and 13 in particular what were your memories of the 14 racial atmosphere in Lawrence at the time? 15 MR. FLOYD: Well, first of all let me say 16 that I was delighted to have the opportunity to 17 come to Lawrence to play football and get an 18 education at the University of Kansas and it has 19 certainly grounded me as it relates to my future 20 career and opportunities, but I think that some of 21 the experiences that we had of a racial nature 22 certainly helped to motivate me to want to see 23 opportunities available for all people as opposed 24 to just some. 25 When we came there my recollection is, first �3 1 of all, that there were certain restaurants we 2 could not eat at as African-Americans. 3 three theaters that I remember. 4 the balcony in two of the theaters and the other 5 theater didn't have a balcony so we had to start 6 filling up the theater from the back rows forward. 7 We had difficulty with housing, and certainly many 8 of the students off-campus housing, 9 African-Americans, they had difficulty. There were We had to sit in 10 Some of my counterparts explained that they 11 have had difficulties in the classroom with some 12 teachers and professors. I don't think that I had 13 that kind of experience. What I do remember is a 14 couple of the professors would tease us, the 15 football players, and basketball players as well, 16 about getting a free ride and, you know, things 17 like that, but my recollection of K.U. was very 18 positive. 19 Certainly the experience we had as it relates 20 to some of those incidents, though, we found out 21 that the track players had some of those 22 experiences, the basketball players, as well as 23 the football players, and it is in that context 24 that we decided to go to the chancellor and to 25 express our indignation and our concerns, both in �4 1 the city as well as when we played TCU in 1957 in 2 Fort Worth, Texas, after we had left Lawrence and 3 we found that the African-American players were 4 going to have to stay at a separate hotel, and 5 that was troublesome. 6 as to whether to play or not and I know that at 7 first I was not going to play but coach pulled me 8 aside and talked with me and I finally decided to 9 go ahead with it, but that was a major experience, 10 11 We had to make a decision I think, that we looked at. But in the '50s there was just a lot of 12 racial segregation and this was just after the 13 Brown v. Board of Education and society was just 14 getting used to the fact that segregation was 15 illegal, but that's kind of what I remember about 16 the period. 17 (11:00:00) 18 MR. ARNOLD: Okay. Great. How would you say 19 that your impressions of Lawrence differed from 20 the experiences you had where you grew up in Ohio? 21 Was there a greater degree of segregation or were 22 you surprised when you got to Lawrence in what you 23 found there, particularly given that Lawrence kind 24 of had this reputation to be the front -- center 25 of the free state movement from the Civil War era? �5 1 MR. FLOYD: We were surprised. My 2 recollection, first of all, in Massilon, Ohio, 3 that was a steel mill town and a high percentage 4 of African-Americans and other minorities were 5 working in the steel mills and it was a good 6 living, and on Main Street, though, in the public 7 contact jobs there were very few, I believe, in 8 Massilon. 9 up one or two persons in public contact jobs. 10 I don't remember but when I was growing The community as a whole coalesced around 11 football. I mean, in those days the Massilon 12 Tigers were winning, regularly winning the state 13 championships and Paul Brown, who ultimately owned 14 the Cleveland Browns and later the Cincinnati 15 team, he was the coach. 16 MR. ARNOLD: 17 MR. FLOYD: Wow. And he was the coach during the 18 late '30s and early '40s and so he had already 19 built up a strong tradition. 20 won the state championship for the seventh 21 consecutive year and two of those years that I was 22 there we were national champs, so it was a town of 23 about 35,000 and on the day of a football game 24 stores closed for a period of time for the 25 marches, the rallies that we had and so forth, so When I graduated we �6 1 it was really a great place to grow up, but at the 2 same time there were problems, but not nearly as 3 much as we saw out in Kansas at that time. 4 (11:02:38) 5 MR. ARNOLD: Okay. So you were clearly 6 surprised, then, when you arrived in Lawrence and 7 found -- 8 MR. FLOYD: 9 MR. ARNOLD: 10 Yes. -- the conditions there and how they differed? 11 MR. FLOYD: 12 (11:02:44) 13 MR. ARNOLD: Yes. You have already briefly touched 14 on the meeting, and I think it was in 1957. 15 it just -- 16 MR. FLOYD: 17 MR. ARNOLD: Was Yes. -- at the beginning of the 18 school year in 1957 that you remember when you met 19 with the chancellor? 20 MR. FLOYD: I think it was after the Fort 21 Worth experience in which we had had that 22 experience, and earlier in the year the basketball 23 team had some experience as well, as I understand 24 it, so we all just got together and said let's -- 25 that was more focused on some of the experiences �7 1 that we have had but also we took on the whole 2 thing and the chancellor really, Chancellor 3 Franklin D. Murphy, really stepped up, in my 4 judgment. 5 limits to students, that he would purchase or rent 6 the movies and show them on campus, and that 7 helped with the theater situation. He threatened to make the theaters off 8 MR. ARNOLD: 9 MR. FLOYD: Right. And then we had the issue of 10 restaurants and he began to speak out on that, and 11 there were others behind him, I'm sure, that was 12 doing some of the negotiations in regard to the -- 13 I think, if I recall correctly, was it Phog 14 Allen's son? 15 were involved in it as well. There was a couple of lawyers that 16 (11:04:34) 17 MR. ARNOLD: 18 MR. FLOYD: 20 MR. ARNOLD: Yes. -- private attorney but also was acting -- 22 MR. FLOYD: 23 MR. ARNOLD: 24 was probably involved. 25 Phog Allen's son was the city attorney at that time, -- 19 21 Right. I don't remember. MR. FLOYD: Right, right. -- as the city attorney so he Yes, yes. So, but at any rate, �8 1 things got better. 2 just appreciative of the forthright steps that the 3 chancellor was willing to take, and as a matter of 4 fact, the following February he invited Thurgood 5 Marshall to be the Brotherhood Day speaker. 6 That's a February event -- 7 MR. ARNOLD: 8 MR. FLOYD: 9 Things got better, and we were Right. -- in which, you know, he had argued the Brown v. Board of Education case. 10 MR. ARNOLD: 11 MR. FLOYD: Right. And he invited him to be our 12 principal speaker, and I know, I even have 13 pictures of that, and it was so enlightening as 14 well as kind of verifying what we were saying, 15 that we needed to go forward and that we needed to 16 take giant steps, and that was something I thought 17 was very positive that the chancellor did. 18 (11:05:53) 19 MR. ARNOLD: Right. Good. And based on your 20 observations at the time, as best you can recall, 21 did the changes in attitudes or policies of some 22 of the local business people, that not only 23 applied to African-American student athletes but 24 also just student body in general and even local 25 residents, that you remember? �9 1 MR. FLOYD: Yes, I think that more and more 2 African-American students were enrolling at the 3 university, so that in and of itself meant that 4 downtown their presence was more -- it's, on 5 campus I think that they were way ahead of, in my 6 judgment, at any rate, than the businesses 7 downtown, but at the same time you could see 8 incremental progress taking place. 9 they couldn't stay at the hotel there and that was At one point 10 an issue, I know, for when some of the parents 11 would come to town, yes. 12 (11:07:03) 13 MR. ARNOLD: But no real change that you 14 recall in that time frame in housing policies, it 15 still was difficult for African-American students 16 who were coming to town to find adequate places to 17 live? 18 MR. FLOYD: 19 MR. ARNOLD: 20 MR. FLOYD: If they did off campus, yes. Right. And as a result many of them were 21 able to stay in homes of other African-Americans 22 who lived in the community. 23 slow. 24 25 That was, housing was Employment with each other eight hours or more but, during the day, in the community you're �10 1 living next to each other and so forth, and there 2 are all kinds of misconceptions, perceptions about 3 what will happen to your neighborhood if blacks 4 move in and, you know, things like that that you 5 had to overcome. 6 (11:08:01) 7 MR. ARNOLD: Right. Right. As we have done 8 the research for this project and been 9 interviewing people one of the things that really 10 becomes apparent is not only, besides the 11 influence that the university had in trying to 12 bring about change, many kind of grassroots 13 community groups were very involved, the churches, 14 both African-American and white churches, kind of 15 umbrella church organizations, the NAACP was very 16 involved, there was in Lawrence an organization in 17 the 1950s and early '60s which you probably 18 weren't aware of called the League for the 19 Promotion of Democracy and it had many not only 20 local African-American members but also a lot of 21 K.U. faculty who were, and I think the faculty 22 played a key role in a lot of these organizations 23 because of course you had people who were from 24 diverse backgrounds coming into Lawrence and 25 didn't necessarily like what they saw, but did you �11 1 have any, during that early time when you were at 2 the university, any interaction with any of those 3 types of groups, through maybe a church 4 affiliation or were you aware of their efforts to 5 try and bring about change as well? 6 MR. FLOYD: Well, there was student groups 7 that we coalesced with on certain issues as they 8 would occur. 9 was aware of some of the churches. I was aware of some, or the NAACP, I Probably not 10 as much involved in a couple of the organizations 11 you just mentioned, yes. 12 (11:09:36) 13 MR. ARNOLD: 14 MR. FLOYD: 15 MR. ARNOLD: Right. Yes. Okay. In addition to the just 16 general kind of conditions of segregation, and you 17 obviously did mention some of the incidents that 18 occurred away, but do you remember any particular 19 incidents that occurred within Lawrence that were 20 particularly influential in kind of prodding 21 people to start pushing for change or was it just 22 kind of general, the general conditions at the 23 time that were -- 24 25 MR. FLOYD: Well, I think that at that point in time people were just trying to get used to the �12 1 idea that there was a change at the Supreme Court 2 level of what constituted discrimination, because 3 segregation was just the law of the land prior to 4 that and so as incidents or situations would 5 occur, you know, you problem solve around what is 6 it that has occurred and the like, and sometimes 7 we felt as though whatever the issue was we didn't 8 have an entree into a receptive -- how can I say 9 this? We see situations that occur between let's 10 say two students, an African-American and a white. 11 Well, the African-American does not feel that I 12 can run to the administration and get justice -- 13 MR. ARNOLD: 14 MR. FLOYD: 15 Right. -- because of the social distance. 16 MR. ARNOLD: 17 MR. FLOYD: Right. And that, I think, is what we 18 were really dealing with. 19 also the social distance -- 20 MR. ARNOLD: 21 MR. FLOYD: It's the attitude but Sure. -- was such that an identical set 22 of circumstances can mean different things to 23 different people, depend upon your previous 24 experience and so forth, and sometimes we didn't 25 feel that we had the ear of the administration or �13 1 in, if it's, sometimes it could have been the 2 police issue involved. 3 could go to the administration or to the powers 4 that be and get a fair treatment. 5 MR. ARNOLD: 6 MR. FLOYD: We didn't feel that we Right. In some instance we'll end up 7 getting the charge, and at the time I think the 8 society was still beginning to know how to deal 9 with the whole business of integration and equal 10 opportunity. 11 MR. ARNOLD: 12 MR. FLOYD: Right. And, see, in those days they just 13 told you up front we don't rent to colored. 14 want you to know that even after, even after 15 Kansas or after K.U. when I moved to Kansas City I 16 had been told that so many times until I started 17 to just over the phone in places that were open 18 for rent in the newspapers, I would say, "Do you 19 rent to colored?" 20 in those days. 21 (11:13:12) 22 MR. ARNOLD: I Because that's the way it was Yes, the fact that you had to 23 ask that question is, you know, to people today 24 shocking. 25 MR. FLOYD: And housing was much more �14 1 difficult than some of the employment situations. 2 (11:13:23) 3 MR. ARNOLD: Right, right. Let's transition 4 from kind of that background to what it was that 5 then got you -- I mean, you obviously left K.U. 6 with opportunities to pursue a sports career but 7 chose instead to, you know, basically dedicate 8 your life to civil rights work. 9 motivated you? What really Was it some of those experiences 10 at K.U. that kind of led you down that path, and 11 how did you end up first I think working for the 12 City of Topeka in a civil rights position, then 13 ultimately becoming the director of the Kansas 14 state commission? 15 MR. FLOYD: Well, immediately after college I 16 had a year of professional football in Canada and 17 then I came down to Kansas City, Missouri, in 18 which I was married and had one child, and we had 19 real difficulty finding housing there and that was 20 really an eye opening experience, too, how 21 segregated Missouri, Kansas City, Missouri, was at 22 the time, but I worked for about a year with the 23 Recreation Department there and I signed a 24 contract with the Cleveland Browns and went up and 25 went through their training camp and I got cut, so �15 1 I came back to Kansas City, and when I came back 2 to Kansas City I was offered a job as an 3 investigator for the State of Kansas with the 4 Kansas Commission on Civil Rights and they had 5 just passed a fair employment practices statute at 6 that point in time, so with the experiences I have 7 had that was kind of a motivating factor to want 8 to see things change and be part of the change. 9 As you know, there were demonstrations and 10 all of those and I saw an opportunity for me to do 11 some good through the legal process and so 12 therefore I took the job and worked there for two 13 and a half years or so and took the position as 14 executive secretary of the Topeka, Kansas, 15 commission and was there for year and a half or 16 more, two years maybe, and then I ended up going 17 to Omaha as their director of their program and 18 then coming back to Kansas in I guess it was 1966, 19 I believe. 20 (11:60:03) 21 MR. ARNOLD: Okay. At about the time you 22 came back Kansas was, and I think as early as '65 23 the Kansas Legislature had been considering a fair 24 housing law. 25 to kind of push that through the legislature? How were you involved in that effort �16 1 Which ultimately didn't happen until I think about 2 1970, but -- 3 MR. FLOYD: Right. Yes, there was a big 4 movement during the year of '65, '66, '67 and we 5 thought we had fashioned a bill that was 6 acceptable to the legislators who were negotiating 7 with it but unfortunately we got it past the House 8 and I think it died in the Senate. 9 My recollection of it was that George Haley, 10 Senator George Haley, helped us as part of the 11 front of the movement, and we were -- much of the 12 push for the legislation was coming through the -- 13 we had an advisory council. 14 Shechter was the chair of the advisory council, 15 and it was a statewide group that was helping to 16 mobilize and it grew larger and more influential 17 and then finally we were able to get the passage 18 of the statute in 19-, I guess it was 1967 -- no, 19 1970, January of 1970, January or February, during 20 that year. 21 legislation the session before, it's just that we 22 just couldn't get it through at that point in 23 time, yes. I remember Ruth But we had actually fashioned the 24 (11:18:00) 25 MR. ARNOLD: Right. What do you recall about �17 1 the opposition? And obviously the real estate 2 industry was one of the key opponents of putting 3 that kind of a law into effect, and I have been 4 told by some of my previous interviewees that 5 their impression was that the Lawrence real estate 6 industry was in particular one of the ones that 7 were pushing hard against putting a law because 8 they argued that they should be able to regulate 9 themselves and this both infringed on their rights 10 and the rights of property owners. 11 recall about who the opposition was and what the 12 case, the arguments that they made against the law 13 that proved at least influential in the first 14 three or four years before you could finally get 15 it passed? 16 MR. FLOYD: What do you Well, I don't recall the specific 17 individuals but certainly the real estate 18 industry, both in Lawrence as well as statewide, 19 was opposed to the fair housing statute and they 20 constantly were, through their legislators that 21 they worked with, were constantly putting up 22 amendments to limit the authority, to limit the 23 consequences of discrimination and so forth, and 24 we had to fight against that, and my recollection 25 in '66, '67, that's when a lot of the negotiation �18 1 was going on and we finally got something that was 2 acceptable and finally passed, you know, in 1970. 3 MR. ARNOLD: 4 MR. FLOYD: 5 6 7 Right. But certainly Lawrence was able to get theirs I guess in '68. MR. ARNOLD: July of '67 they finally passed theirs. 8 MR. FLOYD: 9 (11:20:02) 10 MR. ARNOLD: '67, yes, okay. In '65, and this may have then 11 been before your time back in Kansas, it may have 12 actually been while you were in Omaha, but Wichita 13 actually passed the first Fair Housing Ordinance. 14 Did you have any involvement in that or were you 15 in communication with people down there to talk to 16 them about how they managed to get it through to 17 help your efforts to try and push it through the 18 state legislature? 19 20 MR. FLOYD: That effort was going on at the same time when I was in Kansas. 21 MR. ARNOLD: 22 MR. FLOYD: Okay. For a long time that effort was 23 going on. I left, while I left the State, I was 24 still in Topeka with a local human rights 25 commission and the state wide effort had an �19 1 influence on what they were doing in Wichita, and 2 I was aware that Wichita, which is, you know, the 3 largest city, were able to pass the statute, and 4 that gave some support for other cities to take up 5 the issue, and certainly Lawrence did and was 6 successful. 7 (11:21:16) 8 MR. ARNOLD: 9 Do you recall who were kind of the key advocates within Lawrence or any 10 particular people that you worked with at the time 11 they were -- and sort of the timeline, just to 12 refresh your memory or give you the background, 13 based on our research, there had been discussions 14 of it I think among local groups as early as '65, 15 because they formed what they called a Fair 16 Housing Coordinating Committee, which brought 17 NAACP, church groups, various other citizen groups 18 together under an umbrella to work towards that, 19 and really sometime in '66 they decided that they 20 wanted to push it up to the City Commission and 21 actually right at the beginning of January of '67 22 they went to the Human Relations Commission in 23 Lawrence, proposed it. 24 25 The Human Relations Commission had already been quietly working with them so they weren't �20 1 surprised that it was coming to them and then they 2 drafted the ordinance and took it up to what 3 proved to be a fairly receptive City Commission, 4 which passed it in '67. 5 may have worked with or groups you may have worked 6 with or how they may have coordinated with you at 7 the state level in trying to bring this forward 8 within Lawrence? 9 MR. FLOYD: But do you recall who you Well, one of the things that we 10 would do at the state level is to share with the 11 local, other cities that have passed similar 12 housing laws and so forth, ordinances, to give 13 them some perspective of what they were to look 14 like, as well as whether it would be suitable for 15 their particular, and certainly we played that 16 role, and I do know that there was substantial 17 support from the city attorney's office and so 18 forth, and I think that there was influence also 19 from the K.U. leadership as well. 20 21 22 MR. ARNOLD: Right, and I was going to ask you about that, in fact. MR. FLOYD: Yes. There was considerable 23 leadership there because of the fact that many of 24 their students were complaining and having their 25 own difficulties, so it was a wide segment of the �21 1 population that was socially conscious about the 2 problems that really worked with each other, and 3 we had the statewide advisory council that also 4 played a role in supporting the local effort as 5 well. 6 (11:23:54) 7 MR. ARNOLD: Right. And you are bringing up 8 an important point when you mention that you all 9 at the state level were trying to make local 10 communities aware of laws that had put in place 11 elsewhere, because Lawrence very much looked at a 12 couple of the university cities in Iowa, Iowa City 13 in particular, as a model because it sort of was a 14 town with a similar demographic and so they very 15 much modeled theirs on Iowa City's, as well as 16 looking at Wichita as a model. 17 The university certainly played a role and 18 they had already gone through, both at the time 19 you were there and then afterwards there's some -- 20 MR. FLOYD: 21 MR. ARNOLD: Demonstrations. -- demonstrations and later 22 football players, including a gentleman named Gale 23 Sayers, was involved in demonstrating against not 24 just discrimination in university housing in 25 particular, which I think they had already �22 1 addressed by that point, but one of the concerns 2 was housing in the community still being 3 segregated, opportunities not being offered to 4 African-Americans, and the university yet would 5 allow those landlords to advertise on campus and 6 so there was a big push for the university to ban 7 landlords who wouldn't rent to African-Americans 8 from being able to advertise on campus and in fact 9 they were successful with that, but when the 10 ordinance came up for consideration by the City 11 Commission both the vice chancellor wrote a letter 12 saying, you know, we very much support this, it 13 conforms with what is now university policy, and 14 then also, interestingly, Ted Owens, the 15 basketball coach, came forward and said, you know, 16 when I go out and recruit athletes I tell their 17 parents they're sending them to a town that they'd 18 be proud to have their son play sports in and, you 19 know, we need to make changes like this so that in 20 fact Lawrence will live up to, you know, a 21 reputation and be a place where people would want 22 their children to come. 23 So do you -- I take it, then, you feel that 24 the university, that influence was very important 25 in probably changing attitudes? �23 1 MR. FLOYD: Absolutely, absolutely, and also 2 the fact that the professionalism that the 3 university had in their professors and 4 administrators was very important. 5 that there were demonstrations on campus for some 6 of those issues as well and I remember there was 7 one group took over the chancellor's office, if I 8 recall correctly. 9 MR. ARNOLD: 10 MR. FLOYD: Now, I know Right, right, yes. So yes, the progress didn't come 11 without some kind of tension and some kind of 12 pushback, but at the same time it was good that so 13 many people were willing to get together, work 14 together, in order to push the community forward, 15 and I think this is a prime example of that. 16 (11:27:08) 17 MR. ARNOLD: Right. And in fact one of the 18 individuals I interviewed for this project told me 19 that frankly he didn't think Lawrence would have 20 been one of the first towns in Kansas to pass such 21 an ordinance if it hadn't been a university town 22 and kind of the diversity of points of view, 23 leading a lot of people to think this is wrong and 24 we need to change it. 25 MR. FLOYD: Absolutely, yes. �24 1 (11:27:30) 2 MR. ARNOLD: There was actually at the time 3 the Human Relations Commission in Lawrence was 4 working on drafting the Fair Housing Ordinance in 5 early '67, in the minutes of one of their 6 meetings, and I'll put you on the spot a little 7 bit here to see how good your memory is because it 8 was 50 years ago and you may not even remember 9 this, but according to minutes in the March, 1967, 10 Human Relations Commission it said that you had 11 met with the Lawrence real estate board to discuss 12 fair housing with them, and in fact Glenn 13 Kappelman, who was a member of the Human Relations 14 Commission and also a local realtor who supported 15 fair housing, was quoted as saying that you, Homer 16 Floyd, were well received and expected to be 17 invited to appear before the board again in the 18 future. 19 Do you remember meeting with the Lawrence 20 real estate board specifically on the Fair Housing 21 Ordinance and what their attitudes were when you 22 met with them? 23 MR. FLOYD: I do remember one meeting and 24 everything's a little fuzzy now in terms of some 25 of the personalities. �25 1 MR. ARNOLD: 2 MR. FLOYD: Sure. It was helpful that I had played 3 football and had had a name in the state, but -- 4 so some would have, just on the matter of 5 courtesy, would have welcomed me, but I do recall 6 that there was some support in that group for, 7 particularly when we talked about how it would 8 function, how the ordinance would function, and 9 the kind of, the steps that would be taken after a 10 11 complaint would be filed and so forth. I remember, you know, that kind of discussion 12 and asking for their support. 13 recollection of any vote or anything like that was 14 taken. 15 MR. ARNOLD: 16 MR. FLOYD: 17 Now, I have no Right, right. But in that context I was well received, yes. 18 (11:29:39) 19 MR. ARNOLD: Another interesting observation 20 that one of the people I interviewed made was, in 21 talking about the attitude of the realtors, that 22 some of the realtors they believed quietly 23 welcomed this because it gave them -- they really 24 wanted to bring about change, they felt that 25 change was right, but they felt like they needed �26 1 something, a framework that would allow them to do 2 it without necessarily it hurting their customer 3 base, whereas other realtors, whether through 4 prejudice, just innate prejudice, or the fact that 5 they were so concerned about the impact that it 6 might have on their business continued to be 7 opposed to it, but did you have that same 8 impression, that there were some who favored fair 9 housing but were reluctant to speak out because 10 they were afraid how it might hurt their business 11 but kind of quietly hoped that it would come to 12 fruition? 13 MR. FLOYD: Absolutely. There always was a 14 discussion if I do this so and so is going to use 15 it against me as it relates to whatever products, 16 you know, I'm selling or whatever, that it's going 17 to adversely affect my business, and of course our 18 position was simply that if you pass the ordinance 19 everybody will be under the same requirements and 20 the same process so therefore it is going to be 21 good for you. 22 and say that," and so there were that 23 undercurrent, in two ways, undercurrent to say 24 please do it, but there were others who was less 25 enthusiastic about it, yes. Said, "Yes, but I can't come out �27 1 (11:31:31) 2 MR. ARNOLD: Yes. And you wonder if that 3 same problem was even more pervasive just than in 4 the business world, because one of the interesting 5 things is, again, and much of the local Fair 6 Housing Coordinating Committee was very active not 7 only in pushing the issue up to the Human 8 Relations Commission but also kind of doing a 9 separate sort of public relations campaign in 10 favor of it. 11 local paper in favor of fair housing and then they 12 also did a signature campaign and well over a 13 thousand people in Lawrence, and the City actually 14 sat down and mapped out the addresses of all these 15 people and found it was widespread all over the 16 city, not just, you know, in particular 17 neighborhoods, but there seemed to be pretty 18 broad-based support, but it does make you wonder 19 with that level of support were there a lot of 20 people who were just quietly in favor but 21 reluctant to speak out because they weren't sure 22 what their neighbors would think or whatever. 23 you find that not only in Lawrence but kind of 24 just generally in your civil rights work? 25 They had articles published in the MR. FLOYD: Did Tom, that is a major problem even �28 1 today. 2 MR. ARNOLD: 3 MR. FLOYD: Right. Sometimes we use words and 4 phrases to stop our enemy or to block things 5 through scare tactics and so forth and it is -- we 6 are acculturated in such a way that the 7 experiences of whites growing up in their 8 neighborhood and their particular area, they are 9 acculturated along racial lines, as 10 African-Americans are. 11 We have our own situations that we have to be 12 concerned about, and nobody wants to get out there 13 and stand up and be the first to say this is not 14 right, we're going to stop this, and so forth, 15 because they don't want to be called names, those 16 dirty names that you get called when you're a 17 traitor, and so a lot of people would want to go 18 along with it but they don't want to be out front 19 leading it because of the consequences that they 20 feel they are going to have, and that is on all 21 groups, it's not just whites and blacks. 22 MR. ARNOLD: 23 MR. FLOYD: Sure. I mean, that's just the way it 24 is, and getting people to speak up and be 25 comfortable doing so is sometimes difficult. �29 1 (11:34:15) 2 MR. ARNOLD: Right. Yes, and again, many of 3 the people I have interviewed felt like that one 4 of the reasons it did pass fairly easily in 5 Lawrence is that there was pretty broad-based 6 support even if it wasn't necessarily apparent on 7 the surface, but once you put it forward very few 8 people, in fact during the actual hearings many, 9 many people from all different backgrounds came up 10 and spoke out in favor of the fair housing 11 ordinance and the only group that showed up was 12 one realtor and the lawyer who represented the 13 Board of Realtors were the only two who spoke out 14 against it and there seemed to be very little, 15 once it passed, consternation within the community 16 at all about that this major step had been taken. 17 Did you have a sense or did you observe in 18 your position at the state level that once the 19 ordinance was put in place in Wichita, Lawrence, 20 and it may have been done in other communities 21 than Lawrence after that, that noticeable change 22 came about, or was change often more slow in 23 coming and enforcement required to make sure that 24 change actually started to happen? 25 MR. FLOYD: Well, certainly change is slow �30 1 and in housing, since you've got to have, you've 2 got to qualify for loans and that kind of thing 3 the purchase of housing certainly was a slow 4 process in that change. 5 nothing was easy, but a little easier because, you 6 know, first you rent before you buy generally. 7 MR. ARNOLD: 8 MR. FLOYD: Rentals was a little, Right. And so there were more people who 9 were willing to take advantage of opportunities on 10 a rental basis, but even at that it was slow, and 11 I think social change in certain areas doesn't 12 happen overnight. 13 MR. ARNOLD: 14 MR. FLOYD: 15 Right. It's a gradual evolutionary process, and I think that's what we've seen, yes. 16 (11:36:26) 17 MR. ARNOLD: Let me just take a look at my 18 questions here and see what I may have missed that 19 I want to make sure that I ask you about. 20 Do you remember any, and I had mentioned 21 earlier, for example, Jesse Milan, but do you 22 remember any, do you have any observations of his 23 work and do you remember any other particular 24 individuals in Lawrence who you recall from that 25 time frame who were particularly active and �31 1 2 influential in helping to bring about change? MR. FLOYD: Jesse, Jesse Milan I knew very 3 well. We were close friends. He was so valuable 4 to that community. 5 Alversa were the first African-Americans I met 6 from the community and he was pushing his own, 7 because he was I think the first teacher, 8 African-American teacher in the system as well, so 9 he had his own issues that he dealt with, but he When I got there he and 10 was always willing to listen and always willing to 11 reach out to us as students at the university and 12 in the community. 13 When the civil rights movement began to take 14 shape he was always right there with sound 15 leadership and sound suggestions as to how to get 16 things done. 17 and admiration for him because he was a true, I 18 think, positive leader in that community. I had just a great deal of respect 19 (11:38:05) 20 MR. ARNOLD: Good. A number of people have 21 also mentioned, and I don't have any names in 22 front of me, but different ministers in some of 23 the churches, both African-American and white 24 churches in Lawrence, also played key roles, if 25 not necessarily always highly public roles, but at �32 1 least roles in encouraging their congregations to 2 be more involved to try and bring about social 3 change. 4 any impressions of their efforts and how important 5 it was? 6 Do you remember any or do you just have MR. FLOYD: I am having difficulty 7 remembering the ministers but I do know that there 8 was some church leadership that was supporting the 9 efforts and there were, I remember some meetings 10 that we attended in which they were trying to 11 organize and strategize as to what should be our 12 next steps and so forth. 13 (11:39:00) 14 MR. ARNOLD: Sure. And sometimes it's 15 important to think of the churches as the 16 conscience of the community -- 17 MR. FLOYD: 18 MR. ARNOLD: 19 Absolutely. -- and their attitudes often playing a big role in bringing about change. 20 Do you remember, also according to, and I 21 think this was actually in a newspaper article 22 that mentioned who appeared before the City 23 Commission in May, 1967, when they held their 24 hearing in which the proponents made the case for 25 fair housing, but it mentioned that you had �33 1 actually appeared and spoken on behalf as, 2 obviously, the director of the State Civil Rights 3 Commission. 4 remember what kind of reception you got and how 5 receptive the City Commission seemed to be on the 6 issue? 7 Do you remember that and do you MR. FLOYD: I vaguely remember because there 8 were several other communities in which, and 9 sometimes things run together. 10 (11:39:58) 11 MR. ARNOLD: 12 13 Right. You probably did that quite often. MR. FLOYD: But I do remember supporting the 14 ordinance and I do -- I don't think that there was 15 a lot of vocal opposition. 16 those settings I don't remember a lot of vocal -- 17 I mean, there could be two or three people 18 speaking against but the overwhelming was a 19 positive support for the ordinance. 20 (11:40:30) 21 MR. ARNOLD: Right. I don't remember, in And were you surprised 22 at all when it passed in Lawrence or were you 23 expecting that? 24 MR. FLOYD: 25 Or do you even remember? It's just hard to say because there were times at the state level in '67 that we �34 1 just knew we had the bill passed and then all of a 2 sudden something happened and somebody decided to 3 vote the other way and -- or make a parliamentary 4 move to block it, you know, so you never be too 5 confident on something like this. 6 (11:41:03) 7 MR. ARNOLD: 8 Do you have a sense of whether the passage of 9 Right. I can understand. the ordinance in Lawrence had any broader 10 influence within the state? 11 effort to get the state law, continue pushing 12 forward with getting the state law passed, did it 13 influence other communities, that you remember, or 14 do you have any recollection of that? 15 MR. FLOYD: Did it help with the Yes, I think that because Wichita 16 and certainly Lawrence, that helped for 17 legislators at the state level, for those two 18 communities, and I don't know of anybody else at 19 the time, but -- 20 MR. ARNOLD: Topeka may have passed theirs, I 21 have to go back and look, before the state one was 22 passed. 23 time that Lawrence's was passed. I know they were working on it at the 24 MR. FLOYD: 25 MR. ARNOLD: Right, and I just don't remember. Right. �35 1 MR. FLOYD: But certainly for legislators 2 from the areas we could always point to that fact, 3 that it's already a law in your community so 4 therefore why wouldn't we want to make it for the 5 whole state? 6 MR. ARNOLD: 7 MR. FLOYD: Right. And that was an argument that 8 we've used, and I do think that there was an 9 influence, a positive influence to be able to 10 point to Lawrence and to Wichita, yes. 11 (11:42:34) 12 MR. ARNOLD: 13 Reflecting back on the roles you played in Right. Great. 14 the pursuit of civil rights in Kansas, what would 15 you say you are, what accomplishments are you most 16 proud of? 17 MR. FLOYD: I think the single most has to do 18 with the passage of the statewide fair housing. I 19 mean, that was just such an issue for a number of 20 years that we put a lot of emphasis and a lot of 21 attention to, because we had seen the positive 22 effects of the fair employment practices law, we 23 had seen the positive effects that it had, and we 24 just knew that if we could get the state passed it 25 would not only provide more opportunities but it �36 1 also would put people, give opportunities to 2 people who never had it before and put people into 3 communities, as well as in schools, that haven't 4 had contact before. 5 When I came to the University of Kansas as a 6 freshman some of my teammates from Kansas or rural 7 areas had never had contact with an 8 African-American in their lives and we went from 9 not knowing anything about each other, playing 10 three years, and then the fourth year, or playing 11 three years together, and I was elected co-captain 12 of the football team. 13 ways we had come. 14 MR. ARNOLD: 15 MR. FLOYD: That was, that was a long Right. And I think that the whole idea 16 of people having experiences with each other is so 17 important to breaking down the barriers. 18 (11:44:45) 19 MR. ARNOLD: Sure. 20 MR. FLOYD: Sorry. 21 MR. ARNOLD: Right. Absolutely. That's all right. One final 22 question. As we look at all the progress that's 23 been made but the obvious challenges we still 24 face, and we've seen, and I won't get into 25 politics here, but just in the last two or three �37 1 weeks people out in the street concerned about 2 changes that may come forward, but if young people 3 came to you as someone who's dedicated most of 4 your life to pursuing social justice and civil 5 rights what kind of advice would you give them as 6 to how to continue making progress and hopefully 7 keep us from slipping backwards? 8 9 MR. FLOYD: Well, I would say that we have to recognize the importance of supporting diversity 10 and recognizing that people from different 11 cultures, different backgrounds, their major 12 objectives in life are pretty much the same, you 13 know. 14 We have families. We want to see our 15 families do well, and at the same time we want to 16 see our community, our nation, move forward, and I 17 think that the best way we can do that is 18 recognizing the value in each of us and respecting 19 that just because my experiences lead me to this 20 conclusion doesn't necessarily mean that I am 21 evil, I'm doing something to damage somebody else, 22 but also keeping in mind that we all should have 23 at least the same opportunity to whatever it is, 24 and some are going to fail, many will succeed, but 25 just recognizing that. �38 1 And, as I think I said earlier, an identical 2 set of circumstances can mean different things to 3 different people. 4 your background has been, and also how these 5 events have shaped our history to some extent and 6 how -- and look at ways in which we can overcome 7 the nastiness of our democracy, and sometimes that 8 is difficult when you are in the storm, but at the 9 same time we've got to step back sometime and just 10 take a look at where we are and what is it that we 11 would like to be and whether or not we can be the 12 vessel to be able to carry that forward. 13 (11:48:08) 14 MR. ARNOLD: It's what you've learned, what Right. Very good. I have come 15 to the end of my questions, but I wanted to give 16 you an opportunity if there's anything we didn't 17 cover that you think is important that you would 18 like to add. 19 20 21 22 MR. FLOYD: extensive. MR. ARNOLD: Okay, good. Well, thank you very much for your time. 23 MR. FLOYD: 24 MR. ARNOLD: 25 I think that the questions were That's all right. This was very worthwhile and another great contribution to our project, so I �39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 really appreciate it. ***** � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource City of Lawrence Fair Housing Ordinance 50th Anniversary Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Discrimination in housing -- Kansas -- Lawrence -- History African Americans -- Segregation -- Kansas -- Lawrence -- History Lawrence (Kan.) -- Race relations -- History Description An account of the resource <p>On July 18, 1967, Lawrence mayor Richard Raney signed into law Ordinance 3749, which provided fair housing protections to the citizens of Lawrence and predated the passage of the federal fair housing ordinance by almost a year. The purpose of this oral history project, sponsored by the City of Lawrence to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the ordinance, is to document and capture the memories, roles and issues surrounding the passage of Ordinance 3749.</p> <p>In May 1961 the Lawrence City Commission established an interracial Lawrence Human Relations Commission (LHRC) to “further amicable [race] relations” and “investigate…practices of discrimination” within the city. Separately, in 1964 various community organizations, including the NAACP and church groups, formed the Lawrence Fair Housing Coordinating Committee (LFHCC). Working together, the LHRC and the LFHCC submitted a proposed fair housing ordinance to the Lawrence City Commission in April 1967 seeking to address discriminatory practices in the sale and rental of homes in the city that effectively perpetuated patterns of racial segregation. Although strongly opposed by the Lawrence Real Estate Board representing local agents, the Fair Housing Ordinance passed the city commission on July 18, 1967. As its stated purpose the ordinance aimed “to provide for the general welfare of the citizens of Lawrence by declaring discriminatory practices in the rental, leasing, sale, financing or showing and advertising of dwelling units, commercial units or real property to be against public policy, and to provide for enforcement thereof.”</p> <p>Approval of Lawrence’s Fair Housing Ordinance predated the signing of the Federal Fair Housing Act by nine months and preceded passage of the Kansas Fair Housing Act by nearly three years. This landmark piece of civic legislation, promoted by a diverse group of concerned residents of a university town that viewed itself as an example of American values to outsiders, including foreign students, and aspired to embody the ideals of its Free-State legacy, addressed discriminatory practices in housing, providing means for victims to seek redress and imposing penalties on violators. The origins, development and importance of this citizen-inspired movement warrants examination and interpretation as the city approaches the 50th anniversary of the passage of the Fair Housing Ordinance of 1967. <br /><br />Interviews for this project were conducted by Thomas Arnold in the summer and fall of 2016.</p> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available City of Lawrence (Lawrence, Kan.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016 Relation A related resource <p>Click <a href="https://soundcloud.com/lawrenceksaudio/sets/50-years-of-fair-housing-in">here</a> to access the audio recordings of the interviews in this collection.</p> <p>A selection of the interviews were also recorded on video. Click <a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzt8e_efB6wWS-BHMpGWKW46fyHPtfKPZ">here</a> to access the video recordings of the interviews in this collection.</p> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Arnold, Tom Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Floyd, Homer Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:53:14 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Homer Floyd Subject The topic of the resource Discrimination in housing -- Kansas -- Lawrence -- History Segregation -- Kansas -- Lawrence -- History Lawrence (Kan.) -- Race relations -- History Ordinance 3749 (Lawrence, Kan.) Description An account of the resource Oral history interview with Homer Floyd, who was the director of the Kansas State Commission on Civil Rights at the time that Lawrence's fair housing ordinance was passed in July 1967. Mr. Floyd had also been student athlete at the University of Kansas in the 1950s, and discusses his experiences with segregation in Lawrence during that time period. This interview was conducted by Tom Arnold on November 22, 2016, as part of the Lawrence Fair Housing Ordinance 50th Anniversary Oral History Project. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Floyd, Homer Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Lawrence Fair Housing Ordinance 50th Anniversary Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available City of Lawrence, Human Relations Division (Lawrence, Kan.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 11/22/2016 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Arnold, Tom Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This Item is protected by copyright and/or related rights. The public may freely copy, modify, and share this Item for noncommercial purposes if they include the original source information. For other uses you need to obtain permission from the rights-holder(s). Relation A related resource <p>Click <a href="https://soundcloud.com/lawrenceksaudio/homer-floyd-22-nov-2016?in=lawrenceksaudio/sets/50-years-of-fair-housing-in">here</a> to listen to the audio recording of this interview.</p> <p>The Spencer Research Library at the University of Kansas is the official repository for this collection of oral histories.</p> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context FloydInterview112216.pdf (transcript) Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence (Kan.) 1950s - 1967