https://s3.amazonaws.com/omeka-lplks/original/496a73e24c944d8b437381dc234ed9c3.pdf b31c358c3419c7efa599d84f6eea0796 PDF Text Text 1 1 2 CITY OF LAWRENCE, KANSAS 3 4 LAWRENCE FAIR HOUSING ORDINANCE 5 50th ANNIVERSARY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT 6 7 8 9 10 11 Interview of Jesse Milan 12 October 21, 2016 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 �2 1 (17:32:49) 2 MR. ARNOLD: Today is October 21st, 2016. I 3 am local historian Tom Arnold, interviewing Dr. 4 Jesse Milan in his apartment in the Victory Hills 5 Senior Living Community in Kansas City, Kansas, 6 for the City of Lawrence Fair Housing Ordinance 7 50th Anniversary Oral History Project [also 8 present were Scott Wagner and Kurt Henning of the 9 City of Lawrence]. 10 At the time the ordinance passed in July, 11 1967, Dr. Milan was a teacher in the Lawrence 12 public school system and the president of the 13 Lawrence chapter of the NAACP. 14 DR. MILAN: 15 MR. ARNOLD: That's right. Dr. Milan, please tell me a 16 little bit about your background, including what 17 brought you to Lawrence initially. 18 DR. MILAN: What brought me to Lawrence, when 19 I was in Kansas City I went my senior year at 20 Sumner High School. 21 graduate at Sumner, and I was on Kansas Avenue 22 delivering my paper, I sold The Call paper every 23 Friday, and on the Parallel streetcar was a sign 24 that says: 25 in college. In '46 I was going to Two years in the military, four years I said, what? �3 1 So I signed up and volunteered for the 2 military and when I got out of the military and I 3 applied for Kansas University and they assisted me 4 with federal government financial assistance from 5 that as my salary. 6 I spent two years in, one year in Anniston, 7 Alabama, with that and then I was stationed, I 8 couldn't tell you the name of the base there, and 9 I was, we were, for my place where I took my, what 10 do you call it, the initial -- 11 (17:34:50) 12 MR. ARNOLD: 13 DR. MILAN: 14 MR. ARNOLD: 15 DR. MILAN: Your basic training? Yes. Well, no, as a soldier. Okay. They shipped me to this, on this 16 base in Anniston, Alabama, I forget the name of 17 it, and it was, at that time it was very 18 segregated, only a black group that I belonged to 19 at that time, and when we arrived at the base the 20 base commander of that came to accept us and 21 receive us and talk to us and inspect us. 22 As he went around, and about 22 of us, and he 23 went to his office and made an appointment of one 24 of us to serve as a military policeman, Army 25 policemen they were, and guess who he chose? Me. �4 1 And I was surprised, because I was asked by the 2 leader to lead a demonstration of drilling the 3 squad and I drilled my squad, because I did that 4 in high school. 5 I was at Sumner High School. I was a 6 graduate of Sumner High School. When they took my 7 picture many years later after that -- it's on the 8 wall right there. 9 That's on Minnesota Avenue. See that picture behind you? I'm one of the first 10 black persons they put up there on that picture, 11 then they put a few after that. 12 But anyway, I was pleased, and we did a lot 13 of work there, and I was transferred from there 14 to, after one year I was transferred from there to 15 up north, I forget the name of that city, but 16 anyway, I was transferred from there to the base 17 in Honolulu, Hawaii, and made the football team, 18 played football. 19 And another big mistake, I was chosen, based 20 on my performance as a football player during the 21 seasons, as a quarterback and right halfback. 22 a black person. 23 many black quarterbacks playing professional 24 football period, and I had a great time playing. 25 I'm In those days there wasn't too I used to have fun coming to the line of �5 1 scrimmage when the ball got there I'd use 2 deception and I'd say to the big dude, "Hey, big 3 daddy, I'm coming your way." 4 a time, but I played good. 5 we lost games, we won a game, but that was an 6 honor to have been chosen for so many things like 7 that that I didn't apply for. 8 way you performed. 9 (17:38:10) 10 MR. ARNOLD: 11 DR. MILAN: 13 MR. ARNOLD: 14 DR. MILAN: 15 (17:38:22) 16 MR. ARNOLD: 20 21 22 They just liked the What years were those when you Oh, -Late 1940s? Yes. Yes. And then after you left the Army and decided to use your GI Bill to -- 18 19 We won the game, but were in the Army, do you recall? 12 17 Oh, it was a heck of DR. MILAN: To finish my work at, to go to K.U. MR. ARNOLD: -- go to K.U., why did you choose the University of Kansas and Lawrence? DR. MILAN: Well, I attended, my kids 23 attended school in Lawrence. I had four kids, 24 they graduated, they all over the years, and I had 25 a lot of friendships in Lawrence and a lot of �6 1 contacts, and I belonged to Kappa Alpha Psi, which 2 I lived in a fraternity house in Lawrence, new 3 chapter. 4 And so how I got there, there was a lady 5 teacher at the University of Kansas, she was in 6 charge of the women department for women attending 7 K.U. in the P.E. Department, and I did a lot of 8 teaching, members of the class, we all did, all of 9 us, we would have to do this this day, we would do 10 this day, one day, and I was appointed by her to 11 teach in the public school system. 12 give it a try; that's why I'm here." 13 I say, "I'll And, but she didn't just send me to the black 14 school, she sent me to Hillcrest, and I went up 15 there and I had a great reception, and I did a lot 16 of things. 17 One of my most famous philosophy was using 18 the thesis in the Matthew 30:32: 19 neighbor as yourself. 20 have them do unto you. 21 Love your Do unto others as you'd And so -- because at the elementary grades 22 they're not in their classroom solid in terms of 23 playing games. 24 the object, they'd come in and have very poor 25 listening skills, because teacher would come by I didn't just play games, I said �7 1 and do things with them, and I said, my 2 introduction to them was that I am here to help 3 you learn how to play games with each other and do 4 other things and the object of that is to help you 5 improve your listening skills to listen to the 6 teacher, to see what she says to you and how to 7 explain the -- one of the most, even today, 8 difficult problems for the students is 9 mathematics, arithmetic, and so they improved 10 that, and then the other way I, other activity 11 that I used, one of them, was not just that, was 12 square dancing. 13 14 Have you square danced? danced? 15 MR. WAGNER: 16 DR. MILAN: Oh, no. Huh? How could you grow up 17 without square dancing? 18 MR. HENNING: 19 20 21 22 Have you square I'm going with yes. I have, yes. MR. ARNOLD: I would say yes, when I was very young, but not in recent years. DR. MILAN: And one of my most mechanized 23 square dancing, I have all my records and things 24 that I did, was the Kansas, square dancing, Kansas 25 song called Home On The Range. �8 1 (Singing) "Now you dosey around your corner 2 lady one time around, then you see-saw once around 3 your toe, and then you add a minuet with the lady 4 on your neck, run right and left around the hall. 5 Home, home on the range, where the deer and the 6 antelope play, where never is heard a discouraging 7 word." 8 9 Home on the range. I still have it, and then I taught it in Lawrence, Kansas, and then my 10 population grew, so I went to every elementary 11 school in the city of Lawrence, Kansas. 12 (17:42:49) 13 MR. ARNOLD: So after you -- you taught there 14 as a student. Obviously the school system was 15 happy with you and they hired you as the first 16 African-American teacher in the Lawrence school 17 system, I think that was in 1954? 18 DR. MILAN: 19 MR. ARNOLD: Uh-huh. And what was it like being the 20 first African-American teacher in the school 21 system? 22 Did you feel welcomed or did you feel -- DR. MILAN: Well, I felt welcome because I 23 was hired in Lawrence to -- after that, I was 24 hired in Lawrence first, but I had a lot of 25 community relations. �9 1 There were not too many white folk but 2 when -- segregation was very, very difficult, 3 because I worked for the city Recreation 4 Department as assistant superintendent of 5 recreation for the City of Lawrence. 6 first one to do that for a black person and the 7 object was for me to improve the quality of the 8 performance and the program of the city Recreation 9 Department and so what I negotiated with K.U. and I was the 10 other was to bring students to the basketball 11 games and football games and so I did that, so as 12 a result of working with Hillcrest I reached out 13 to all of the schools I was recreation person to 14 work with the city to put a playground at Pinckney 15 Elementary School and Hillcrest Elementary School 16 and Watkins and all of that. 17 Now, one of my most fascinating experience 18 was that one day I got a call, after I received a 19 call from the Ku Klux Klan, and they did a lot of 20 things to try to keep me from being a black 21 teacher to white folks because that's a violation, 22 but I said, "The only thing black were the shoes 23 they wore to school." 24 25 And many of the white teachers were very friendly with me and asked me, say, "Well, Dr. �10 1 Milan, why don't we go and have a good time in 2 Kansas City?" 3 but in order for me to do that you would have to 4 give me a check for a thousand dollars." 5 said, "We can't do that." 6 can't go." 7 that time the relationship of the races were very, 8 very rigid, because the Ku Klux Klan, they threw 9 bombs at my house, they threw fire bombs at my -- 10 I lived in, when I first started teaching I lived 11 over in North Lawrence, I can't think of the 12 apartment, it's a little, a block south of that -- 13 what's the name of that school in, elementary 14 school in Lawrence? I said, "Well, we could do that, They I said, "That's why I You think I'm going to go and -- at 15 MR. HENNING: 16 DR. MILAN: Woodlawn. Woodlawn. And so I moved into 17 that apartment right there and a person in from 18 the city was interested in me expanding because my 19 family, I had a baby and we were looking for a 20 house, and he came by and introduced himself and 21 helped me build a house on 1211 West Fifth Street. 22 You know where that is? That's the end of 23 the white movement but the beginning of the black 24 population in the area in that section of 25 Lawrence, because the street that, Fifth Street �11 1 goes all the way through but on the west side of 2 me was one black person, on the right side of me 3 was a white male, but they told me he was a 4 businessman, and the Ku Klux Klan took and brought 5 a lot of fire things and threw them at my house 6 and in my garage and on my roof and the guy next 7 door would get it and put it out before it caught 8 on fire and had a lot of red stuff of those things 9 in my backyard, and I guess they finally stopped 10 because I was not in a white neighborhood. 11 vacant lot was at the end of the white 12 (indiscernible) movement and then he said, well, 13 I'll -- but he said, you can do it here. 14 That At that time my wife was working at the 15 hospital in Leavenworth and she was an 16 occupational -- 17 MR. ARNOLD: 18 DR. MILAN: Therapist? Yes. And so it wasn't too far 19 from Lawrence to go the highway and go to 20 Leavenworth, so -- but across the street I had a 21 black family that really protected my house, 22 because they see a flame going to my house and I 23 was out teaching and they would go and put them 24 out, and one day I tried to get in my garage and 25 it was full of those ashes and I had to clean it �12 1 2 out. So I had a tremendous effort from the Douglas 3 County Ku Klux Klan, so one day I got a call to 4 meet some students on a lot in Lawrence, Kansas, 5 five white boys and five black kids, because I was 6 assistant superintendent for the City of Lawrence 7 and helped, and I can't think of his name now, he 8 was the superintendent, and we did a lot of things 9 together and he'd let me do a lot of things 10 11 together. And when I walked up at about 6:00 o'clock 12 that evening, five white boys over here, five 13 black boys over here. 14 taught all of them, and I say -- it's amazing to 15 see them. 16 said, "We have a special mission to kill you." 17 said, "You gotta be kidding. 18 to kill me when I taught you in school?" 19 ain't no school." They all had guns. "Why do you have those guns?" I And they I Why would you want "This 20 So I said, "Well, I'll do my best, but 21 remember," I said, "you have to remember what the 22 Bible says: 23 unto others as you'd have them do unto you. 24 I'm sure you haven't read the Bible, otherwise you 25 wouldn't want to kill me." Love your neighbor as yourself. Do And �13 1 Now, the black kids were there to protect me 2 but the white kids wanted to kill me, but guess 3 what? 4 well, you know, it's interesting how we get along 5 in the classroom, and they all remembered that. 6 They remembered one of the most fascinating things 7 was the activities that I would introduce them, 8 and I took them all, from 200, 300 kids, to every 9 home football game and had the Recreation After my talking with them and saying, 10 Department and the parents to buy their tickets. 11 I took them to the basketball games, and it was 12 white and black, and so the kids all enjoyed that, 13 so they both just turned away, walked away, and 14 did not kill me. 15 But the Ku Klux Klan did not give up. So I 16 bought a home, from 1211 West Fifth Street, to buy 17 a place that I wouldn't let them know where I'm 18 moving, so I bought a -- and my family grew, at 19 that time I had three kids, I ended up with four 20 kids, 10th and Alabama. 21 That's one block north of the stadium, two blocks 22 north of the stadium, right on the corner, big 23 two-story house. 24 25 You know where that is? Okay? And we had a great time and I had a great time with the friendship with the kids, and all �14 1 the summer I ran a playground for the kids in the 2 city, not just one place, at school districts near 3 their neighborhood, McAlister, oh, behind the 4 junior high school there on -- where's it located? 5 Not Maine Street but it's close to Maine Street in 6 Lawrence. 7 Lawrence and Woodlawn. 8 9 And Hillcrest and Sunset and North It was just a tremendous experience that I had, and I had many supporters from the white 10 family and I had many of them that were working 11 with the Ku Klux Klan, and they helped me and the 12 kids, I was reported some that would have a 13 meeting every Friday in their school how to 14 protect me, and they did a good job. 15 good lord. 16 They had the The last one was when on 10th and Alabama 17 they drove up, and I believe my house was on the 18 east side of the street, and they drove up on the 19 west side of the street and threw a bomb over my, 20 over their car and it went toward my house on 10th 21 and Alabama and it exploded while in flight. 22 Now, we were the only black family in that 23 neighborhood and all the white folks come running 24 down there to see what happened, to protect me, so 25 I had a tremendous population in the white �15 1 population as well that, that they were not all Ku 2 Klux Klan, male and female, and that's the reason 3 I'm still here today. 4 wouldn't be here. 5 (17:53:23) 6 MR. ARNOLD: Had not been for them I So your neighbors in that 7 all-white neighborhood, they were supportive of 8 having you live there, they welcomed you? 9 10 DR. MILAN: their kids. 11 MR. ARNOLD: 12 DR. MILAN: 13 Yes, because they knew I taught Right. Okay? I had a tremendous child population. 14 (17:53:32) 15 MR. ARNOLD: Yes. So as a teacher you 16 mentioned you were welcomed by your fellow 17 teachers, the Ku Klux Klan did not like having you 18 there. 19 parents? 20 students, did they welcome you? 21 hospitable? How about your students and the students' Did they, even the white parents and 22 DR. MILAN: 23 MR. ARNOLD: 24 DR. MILAN: 25 children. Were they Yes. Good. Through the message of their One of the most, second most important �16 1 things is I developed a square dance club and they 2 enjoyed doing the Texas Star and this as well as 3 the kids, so my job as a Recreation Department for 4 the city, not just for black population but for 5 everyone, and one of the most popular things was 6 that I had many parents who support me because I 7 would take their kids to a basketball game at the 8 Allen Fieldhouse when it was built and I would 9 take them to the football games at Kansas Stadium 10 and help get the tickets through the Recreation 11 Department so that they wouldn't have to pay a 12 whole lot of money for it, and I got many gift for 13 tickets to take the kids to the -- and they all 14 was very, very pleased, so it was the way I 15 treated children, not because they were white, not 16 because they were black, because they were all 17 God's children. 18 And when I became a professor at Baker 19 University that was another wonderful experience. 20 Not only did I teach physical education activity 21 but I taught other kind of subjects of 22 anthropology, and what happened was that they 23 assigned me as the professor from Baker, from the 24 school system in Lawrence -- in Baldwin, I'm 25 sorry. �17 1 When I become the first black professor at 2 Baker University they assign me not just to teach 3 the students and work with the teachers and 4 performance of the school but to work as the 5 professor to go to the public school system in 6 Baldwin, Kansas, for the placement of student 7 teachers. 8 there were in Baldwin, Kansas? 9 Do you realize how many black schools None. But the most fascinating experience, I had to 10 go to talk to the white superintendent about the 11 placement of students at Baker University. 12 that'd be fine, they were familiar with Baker, but 13 they didn't know, but they were amazed because I 14 was not a white professor asking to do that, and 15 they were pleased, and it was very successful, not 16 because I was black but because the kids loved it 17 and I did it, because my philosophy was love your 18 neighbor as yourself and as a result the -- 19 (Phone ringing; off the record.) 20 (17:57:44) 21 MR. ARNOLD: 22 Let me ask you, when you first arrived in 23 Lawrence and in the early years, the 1950s and 24 1960s while you were living there, how would you 25 describe the racial climate, the relationship Oh, You are in high demand, sir. �18 1 2 between the white and the black community? DR. MILAN: Very, very, very vitriol 3 (17:58:04), because the black population lived in 4 certain sections. 5 was in North Lawrence, the black folk lived on 6 this side and the white folk lived on that side, 7 and in a very limited space. 8 9 The most integrated population And what got me where I was in terms of increasing the performance and the relationship 10 was the -- who was it? 11 He was superintendent of the city Recreation 12 Department, and while I was at K.U. I was an 13 official of the Kansas Relays and he got to know 14 me quite well because I negotiated with him for 15 relay tickets and places to take the kids to, to 16 the games irrespective of race. 17 I did, I took black, white, white kids. 18 take them, they met me at the stadium, at the gate 19 to get in, and they had a special section for all 20 students and they went in. 21 I can't think of his name. That's one thing I didn't Now, one of the things that was fascinating 22 was that after I graduated from K.U. I was 23 assigned as an official in the K.U. Relays and I 24 was there for 40 -- 20 years, and I have a special 25 uniform that I wore; I still have it. It's in �19 1 there. It's when I was -- I'll be wearing it 2 tomorrow. 3 pants and my shirt, I'll show it to you, but what 4 happened is that at Baker there wasn't that very 5 strong relationship between the white students and 6 the black students but I created an organization, 7 because there were some black -- white students 8 who didn't, had never met a black teacher and that 9 was strange to them and I kept saying to them I 10 used the Bible as a thesis to help me understand 11 who I am and what my responsibility is. 12 I'm called a nigger and this and that and I'm 13 black, we couldn't do this and we couldn't do 14 that. 15 had to sit in a black section in the show. 16 you know that? Every Friday, or Saturday I wear my I know Even to go to the theater in Lawrence you Did 17 (Announcement on the loud speaker about 18 Happy Hour.) 19 DR. MILAN: Well now, what they do at that 20 session, they have token of some cake or 21 something, wine and beer and mixed drink. 22 (18:01:24) 23 MR. ARNOLD: 24 DR. MILAN: 25 beer, get that wine. It sounds very nice. Oh, a lot of folk get to get that I don't drink wine. �20 1 When I was a student at K.U., course I ran 2 track in high school at K.U., at K.U. stadium. 3 Sumner High School would go there, but it was a 4 track session, it was mixture with the race, just 5 school. 6 sent their track team to K.U. for the relay on 7 Friday and Saturday and I was, while I was there I 8 was appointed to work on the PE department, 9 physical fitness department at the, K.U. wanted 10 one of the members of the school to help provide 11 officials so I was official for the high jump, 12 triple jump, discus throw, and javelin, boys and 13 girls. 14 that and I had many students to do what I wanted 15 them to do. 16 High schools across the state of Kansas Fascinating, and I had a great time doing And they gave me a, when I retired they gave 17 me a present here, this place, they gave me a cap, 18 one of the things you wear, and shirt and a 19 jacket; they didn't give me the jacket, I bought 20 it, and so I was a very proud person to be an 21 official (indiscernible 18:03:24). 22 I don't care where I traveled in Lawrence, on 23 both sides of the city very segregated. The most 24 integrated section in Lawrence was North Lawrence, 25 mainly because they were divided but they all �21 1 lived in the same damn place, and I had many, many 2 of the Ku Klux Klan to chase me down the main 3 street, but I had a car at that time, and -- but 4 the white folks protected me. 5 I wouldn't be here if it had not been for 6 them, those students, and the students and God 7 protected me, I wouldn't be, because at 10th and 8 Alabama they take the big bomb and threw it at my 9 house. It exploded before it arrived and all the 10 white folks came down, and gave me guns. 11 want no gun. 12 (18:04:19) 13 MR. ARNOLD: I didn't You had started describing some 14 of the forms of segregation and discrimination in 15 Lawrence besides the neighborhoods but also you 16 mentioned in the movie theater you had to sit in a 17 separate section. 18 19 20 DR. MILAN: Well, you couldn't buy a house anyplace. MR. ARNOLD: Yes, tell me a little bit about 21 the different kinds of discrimination, including 22 in housing. 23 DR. MILAN: You had to -- oh, there was a 24 limited section in East Lawrence. You ever hear 25 of the New York School, elementary school? �22 1 MR. ARNOLD: 2 DR. MILAN: Uh-huh, yes. That was where the first grades 3 go, up to sixth grade, and the only place there 4 was a change in education was when they got to 5 junior high and they ultimately, they had but one 6 high school and one junior high and they all went 7 together, and I taught at the junior high and the 8 high school. 9 Now, housing was limited along New York City 10 [Street] was a population in Lawrence, in East 11 Lawrence, a limited section along Alabama, because 12 I also (18:05:38) studied at a house in Alabama. 13 On Mississippi the fraternity houses were across 14 from the stadium. 15 across from the entrance on Mississippi Street and 16 the Alphas was down the street and across the 17 street on 11th and Alabama, I think that's the 18 main street, at least to the -- Mississippi 19 Street, Mississippi leads to the stadium, up to 20 K.U. entrance, was a black family that, on, right 21 on the corner there and lived right next door to 22 the Alpha house, and the other section that was 23 limited, there were no black family in the 24 Hillcrest section of the town, there were no black 25 family in a certain section in south Lawrence, The Kappa house was about, just �23 1 because they used to have farms out there. 2 were some farms in them areas where it was 3 Lawrence, but they were not mixed, they were 4 limited. 5 There So Lawrence was very segregated housing and 6 employment. Now, you could not go downtown to 7 Lawrence and go to any of those places to eat, 8 except some places had a special section for black 9 people to sit to eat in their place. You could 10 not just go in and you sit down. You couldn't got 11 in and go to the (18:07:20 indiscernible). 12 had to sit in a certain section. 13 deny the white folks to sit in there, because 14 they'd sit in that section because their section 15 was full, and we couldn't ask them to leave. 16 were asked to leave from this show. Now, that didn't 17 So it was a very segregated city. 18 (18:07:50) 19 MR. ARNOLD: 20 21 You We How would you compare Lawrence to the city you spent some time in in Alabama? DR. MILAN: Alabama, I didn't spend time 22 (17:08 indiscernible), I (indiscernible) location. 23 It was very segregated in the south. 24 (18:08:07) 25 MR. ARNOLD: Was Lawrence as bad as the south �24 1 or not as bad as the south, or how would you 2 compare? 3 4 DR. MILAN: It was as bad because only, you could only live certain places. 5 MR. ARNOLD: 6 DR. MILAN: Right. You could only go certain places. 7 K.U. to an extent wasn't as integrated but they 8 couldn't segregate the stadium, those who tried, 9 we got rid of that, because I served as the 10 assistant superintendent for the city Recreation 11 Department so I didn't have recreation activities 12 just for the black students, I had them for all 13 students, and that's why my organization at 14 Baker's still going strong today. 15 about it in just a minute. 16 I'll tell you But so the city was segregated. It had 17 certain limitations. The housing law that was 18 being discussed in Topeka was not thoroughly 19 enforced because the persons who were selling 20 housing didn't just go in for anything, they were 21 very selective of who they would offer. 22 And I was one of those selected persons 23 because when I was living in North Lawrence in a 24 segregated community they said, well, we got some 25 land on Fifth Street over in Lawrence, West �25 1 Lawrence, and we would like to build a house for 2 you and your wife, and I had two kids, and said, 3 well, that's fine, and they built a house at 1211 4 West Fifth Street. 5 white population. It was well welcomed by the 6 Now, who they were, but -- I don't know who 7 they were that threw that stuff at my house, and 8 when I moved to 10th and Alabama they did the same 9 thing, because I was the only black resident on 10 10th and Alabama, 10th and Alabama. 11 go down Alabama that big white house is still 12 there because couple, not a couple weeks, about 13 three weeks ago my daughter was in town from 14 California and she was born in that house and she 15 went by and looked at the house from a history 16 standpoint. 17 It's still there. If you ever It's still there. But what really protected me were the white 18 kids I taught. 19 me. I thought they really protected 20 MR. ARNOLD: 21 DR. MILAN: Very good. Because had they, if they had not 22 I'd have been gone, and God protected me. 23 treat them. 24 25 How you I would go to -- there was a grocery store right on the corner of Ninth and Massachusetts -- �26 1 not a grocery store, a drug store. 2 name of that drug store? 3 section in there. 4 (18:11:05) 5 MR. ARNOLD: 6 7 What's the It had a restaurant Round Corner Drug Store, was that it? DR. MILAN: It sat on the corner of the west 8 side of I think Ninth and Massachusetts. 9 know if it's still there or not, but it was, it 10 had a place where you could go in and buy your 11 drink, pop and so forth, and hamburger. 12 have an extensive cooking place but you could get 13 a sandwich and so forth and I could go there and I 14 knew who the people were serving because they knew 15 me from my teaching, but it didn't mean that I 16 could go anywhere in a store. 17 special place they'd provided. 18 (18:11:46) 19 MR. ARNOLD: I don't Didn't I could go to a Tell me a little bit more about 20 your experience trying to find, trying to move to 21 different neighborhoods. 22 some stories that the real estate agents would not 23 show you all the place -- And I know there were 24 DR. MILAN: They never did, they never -- 25 MR. ARNOLD: Tell me about some of your �27 1 experiences with the real estate agents and some 2 of the experiences that other black families had 3 trying to find housing and how the real estate 4 agents would try to steer you away from certain 5 neighborhoods towards others. 6 DR. MILAN: Well, mainly because the 7 population was located that way. The black 8 population was back over here and the white 9 population was everyplace else, so it was a very 10 interesting person who wanted to provide you a 11 house. 12 neighborhood, they built houses in the black 13 neighborhood. 14 They didn't build houses outside the black One of the most concentrated area was off of 15 the main street there, off of the highway, south 16 -- north, near north of the stadium. 17 Alabama, where I -- on Maine Street, where, I 18 forget what numbers, going to college, before I 19 lived in a fraternity house. 20 where that is? 21 MR. ARNOLD: 22 DR. MILAN: Now, on 824 Maine. You know Roughly, yes. Right in the middle of the block. 23 There were two black folks in that neighborhood. 24 Okay? 25 didn't just take you anyplace. And those who were selling real estate �28 1 There was vacant land where a person had 2 given up the farming and had become a place for 3 building and they could not build a house just 4 anywhere, even the real estate they were selling, 5 one person in the real estate, can't think of his 6 name right now, because, see, my brother and my 7 (18:13:56 indiscernible) in Kansas City was in the 8 real estate business in Kansas, the same thing, 9 segregated stuff, so they knew how to look at 10 that, but I was lucky that they finally found this 11 land. 12 neighborhood, just a vacant piece of land next to 13 a white neighborhood and black neighborhood, over 14 that way. 15 He said he knew it was not in a white The other thing was that they would have a 16 parade, I got some of that stuff, in 17 Massachusetts, come down Massachusetts and you 18 would not find an integrated group, you'd find 19 black group playing their instruments going down 20 our neighborhood. 21 And back to the basketball games, they set us 22 in a section that wasn't segregated, because I had 23 white and black students that knew each other, 24 some didn't know each other, but that -- so it 25 was, Lawrence at that time was not a free city, �29 1 black folks, Mexican. 2 Now, the Mexican, they caught more problem 3 than we did because some of them couldn't speak 4 the English language but in the public school 5 system they went to the white school system, they 6 didn't go to the black school system, only black 7 folks went to public school system and when they 8 got to the high school, that's when they began to 9 integrate the school system, junior high and high 10 school. 11 (18:15:44) 12 MR. ARNOLD: So did Brown vs. the Board of 13 Education, when that passed in 1954 did that 14 affect the Lawrence schools? 15 DR. MILAN: 16 MR. ARNOLD: Yes. Can you describe that? That was 17 about the same time you started teaching, so how 18 did that affect the schools? 19 DR. MILAN: Because they were segregated and 20 they didn't just open up, they improved the 21 quality of the brown school -- black schools and 22 as they built new schools there were no black 23 neighborhoods, though they were next door. 24 example, where I built my house on Pinckney 25 Elementary School is just east of it, 1211 West For �30 1 Fifth Street. Fifth Street was a street east 2 of -- what's that main street, main highway going 3 through Lawrence? 4 MR. ARNOLD: 5 DR. MILAN: 6 MR. ARNOLD: 7 DR. MILAN: Sixth Street. Sixth Street. Sixth Street, yes. Well, see, north, Fifth Street's 8 just north of that, and I can't think of the name 9 of the streets right now but I know that the black 10 neighborhood, that went from my house west for 11 three or four blocks and north of that were some 12 that had farmland (18:17:10 indiscernible) that -- 13 and the other section -- and there were none near 14 Hillcrest Elementary School, except on Maine 15 Street. What was the address on Maine? 16 MR. HENNING: 17 DR. MILAN: 18 824? 824 Maine. How you know that, man? 19 THE SPEAKER: 20 DR. MILAN: I'm taking notes, sir. That's right, 824 Maine. After 21 you leave there on the other side of that house 22 that they used to live was white families, on the 23 corner, older neighborhood, across the street. 24 How he got that house I don't know because when I 25 entered K.U. I stayed as a rent student in that �31 1 house and walked to campus every day. 2 There were not just anyplace you could go. 3 (18:18:09) 4 MR. ARNOLD: 5 DR. MILAN: Right. So if you -- What helped me was when I was 6 teaching in the white public school system I 7 became a population to help move out of the 8 neighborhood, not our neighbor but where there was 9 another facility. It was very difficult, and real 10 estate agents were very careful of where they 11 found vacant housing for black people. 12 (18:18:41) 13 MR. ARNOLD: So if you were a black family 14 moving to Lawrence or a black student coming to 15 Lawrence to go to K.U. the real estate agents 16 would only steer you to certain neighborhoods and 17 -- 18 19 DR. MILAN: Yes, because there was not homes that provide housing for K.U. 20 (Announcement on the loud speaker; 21 discussion off the record.) 22 DR. MILAN: 23 several days a week. 24 25 And once every week that happens, But what, the real estate agents knew the segregated area, where to look for vacant land, �32 1 vacant houses, and apartment buildings was not 2 open until after the passage of the Fair Housing 3 Ordinance, and we were very interested in the 4 preparing of that. 5 I had some friends in Topeka that I would go 6 over and visit and we would talk about why it's 7 important. 8 Constitution, and what does it say? 9 are citizens so we should be enabled to access 10 whatever we want to do not because of our race, 11 but that white population, let me tell you, buddy, 12 it was very strong, very segregated, and I was 13 exceptional. 14 I said, oh, so you can take the Citizen. We That's why I got that first black professor 15 at Baker University. 16 end but -- what's the name of the place? 17 building by the green, I can't think of the name 18 now, but a black family owned it. 19 restaurant and a bar and a pool table, black kids 20 could go down there and play pool and drink beer 21 and it's a tavern, it's a black tavern. 22 trying to think, I can't think of the name of it 23 now, but I know where it was. 24 25 I was given the end, not the It's a It had a little I'm And one of the professors from Baker University knew the owner of that black facility �33 1 and he came once in awhile and I was giving a 2 speech to parents about recreational activities in 3 Lawrence. 4 students didn't belong to white teams but they 5 played each other, black teams, and so I was 6 giving a speech there and said that someday that 7 might happen but right now we have a segregated 8 facility, because I was assistant director of the 9 city Recreation Department, but he hired me It was very segregated because black 10 because I was an elementary teacher and he hired 11 me for that for the summertime to improve the 12 recreational activities for the black students in 13 Lawrence, black kids, and I did that. 14 And as we went along the Fair Housing 15 Ordinance was introducing a whole recreational 16 experience, because real estate agents had to open 17 up the door and parents who wanted a house, and 18 they looked at some neighborhood, like in 19 Lawrence, I never will forget the family that 20 moved up the street on the corner on Ninth & 21 Maine, because the real estate agent said, well, 22 the house is there, but at the time it was a 23 segregated neighborhood but the real estate agent, 24 who was a white agent serving the black community, 25 provided a house for this family and they moved �34 1 in. They caught hell for awhile but it gradually 2 changed as they lived and got to know the family a 3 little better. 4 So integrating neighborhoods were very rigid 5 because they were very stubborn and they were not 6 going to school together. 7 after they changed the school system to integrated 8 systems. 9 (18:23:25) 10 MR. ARNOLD: It didn't happen till Let's talk a little bit, since 11 you brought up the Fair Housing Ordinance, really 12 the work towards bringing that about started much 13 earlier with organizations like the League for the 14 Promotion of Democracy, which I know you were the 15 president of. 16 organization in the 1950s and what other 17 organizations -- 18 How did you get involved with that DR. MILAN: Well, the reason, because of the 19 students would talk about me to their parents, how 20 well I treat them, and when I treat the white 21 students, when I went to their schools they told 22 their parents about me as well. 23 treat a person. 24 25 It's how you One of the most fascinating experience, not just a game, how they grew when they integrated �35 1 system and before that how the boys in the same 2 school, white, came together on my square dancing. 3 I taught all types of dance, all types of 4 activities, dancing, and that was the most 5 valuable social adjustment activity. 6 I coached white girls, elementary and junior 7 high basketball teams where I was at Central High 8 School, Junior High, and I coached girl's 9 recreation in the summertime, boys and girls, but 10 my most fascinating integrated activity was track, 11 taking them to the track meet, because I ran the 12 track meet, on a black team, not a white team. 13 ran the quarter mile and I had a good time. 14 I So one of my impact on the city, not only was 15 I a prime character to get rid of, because I had 16 many efforts to try to do that, God blessed me and 17 so some of the parents and the kids really blessed 18 me, white parents and white children really 19 blessed me and I give thanks for them, but the 20 problem was Lawrence was not in favor from a major 21 standpoint the fair housing law, because they had 22 made too much money selling white folks white 23 stuff, but as the land began to move from a farm 24 area, because there was a lot of farms in that 25 area and the land became popular for building and �36 1 what have you, and when they were building they 2 were very selective who moved in them homes. 3 was one of them, and they didn't appreciate me in 4 that neighborhood because I was black and they 5 said all kinds of stuff, and it was, it was 6 interesting, so I was very popular. 7 (18:26:38) 8 MR. ARNOLD: 9 DR. MILAN: I So meaning -In improving the knowledge and 10 the purpose of the document of this country, the 11 14th Amendment. 12 specifically identify black people but they said 13 all persons will become citizen of this country, 14 and that's why on the East Coast a very rigid 15 population from the white population rejected 16 that, but it ultimately passed because it said we 17 must do this, because they had a black military. 18 The 14th Amendment did not My father was a member of the Army when he 19 was growing up in World War I and other relatives. 20 The military was very segregated. 21 the military in the '40s, in '46, it was 22 semi-integrated. 23 the years checked by. 24 difficult laws to get passed, the fair housing law 25 of Kansas, because there's a -- what was the name When I got in It increased its integration as That was one of the most �37 1 of that white organization that was really 2 opposing -- what you need to see? 3 MR. ARNOLD: 4 DR. MILAN: 5 MR. HENNING: 6 7 He's taking some notes. Huh? Oh, I'm watching you and taking notes. DR. MILAN: Well, if you looked at all them 8 white books, that's what I developed when I was 9 teaching. 10 But Kansas even today does not a hundred 11 percent support the Kansas fair housing law. 12 There were many laws that were passed after World 13 War II to improve the flexibility of black people. 14 Now, Hispanics got even worse than that because 15 they had to live in a very segregated area where 16 they spoke the same language, Spanish language. 17 On New York City, state [Street], what was 18 it, McAlister Elementary School, south -- west -- 19 east, yes, east of McAlister Elementary School, 20 one of my schools, was a white school that 21 eventually they integrated it but behind that 22 school were a lot of Mexican families, so they had 23 a very limited, not just for us but for them. 24 However, sometimes they could go to the show and 25 not have to sit in the black section, they could �38 1 sit anywhere. Black people could not do that. 2 The main theater down there on Massachusetts, you 3 know where it is? 4 MR. ARNOLD: Uh-huh. 5 DR. MILAN: All right. 6 ticket but you couldn't just sit anywhere. 7 MR. ARNOLD: 8 DR. MILAN: 9 Well, you could buy a make you get up. Right. If you would sit there they'd If you wouldn't get up they'd 10 put you out, so I didn't like to go, but I went, 11 and after I got married my wife would go, but it 12 was a very segregated city and one thing that we 13 had to really improve on was racial relations. 14 (18:30:30) 15 MR. ARNOLD: Yes, tell me about some of the 16 organizations that tried to do that, like the one 17 you were involved in was the League for Promotion 18 of Democracy. 19 That was an integrated group with both white 20 people and black people working together to bring 21 about change. 22 What do you remember about that? Do you think that was a good group? DR. MILAN: PTA, Parent-Teachers Association. 23 Parent-Teachers Association moved, began to move 24 together. 25 they didn't walk the streets and beat but they That was one of the first powerful -- �39 1 improved the quality of the community by improving 2 the quality of opportunity for all persons. 3 And then the unions were very good at that 4 itself, okay? And now the teaching, teachers' 5 association were very interested in improving the 6 quality because now Lawrence was beginning to grow 7 and the area for the location of black people were 8 very limited, where they could build a house or 9 buy a house. Many people recruited from Kansas 10 City to Topeka and Lawrence, while those cities 11 themselves were segregated. 12 anyplace you want to in Topeka, until after the 13 passage of the fair housing law and the 14 enforcement of it. 15 You couldn't just go Now, sometimes the enforcement was not fair, 16 it just make sure that you knew damn well you 17 don't belong here, goodbye, get out of here. 18 lot of stuff took place, lot of arguments and 19 fights, but not me. 20 I had the kids who supported me because I was 21 their teacher, not their parents but their kids. 22 (18:32:33) 23 MR. ARNOLD: A I chose not to do it because Talk to me about the involvement 24 of the Lawrence NAACP, which you were a member of 25 and the president of. How did they try to promote �40 1 2 fair housing? DR. MILAN: Fourteenth Amendment. We used 3 that as the basis for our organization. 4 formulated for that. 5 I was responsible for bringing membership there, 6 because we have to be able to use two things: 7 God, because the churches were very segregated. 8 9 NAACP was It was brought to Lawrence, I grew up in Armourdale. You couldn't go to no white folks' church, even though it was 10 Catholic. 11 And so it brought about a change of putting in the 12 emphasis and the gospel in the Bible, love your 13 neighbor as yourself irrespective of his sex or 14 race. 15 you violate the Christian regulation. 16 I wasn't Catholic, I was a Baptist. If you love God and you don't do that, then I used that as a thesis for creating a 17 special organization at Baker University. 18 ever hear about it? 19 (18:34) 20 MR. ARNOLD: 21 DR. MILAN: No. You Tell us about it. At Baker University it was very 22 segregated, except when they brought me there I 23 could go where black kids couldn't go. 24 no, this ain't gonna happen. 25 this. I said, We need to change We're all children of God irrespective of �41 1 your race and the Bible said love your neighbor, 2 not love your race neighbor, but love your 3 neighbor as yourself, and as a result I created an 4 organization, was because when I met with the 5 black students in my classroom -- I taught not 6 just black students, I taught all the students in 7 anthropology and in the physical education 8 classes. 9 I taught in P.E. Department at Baker and 10 anthropology and I taught the subject for 11 placement of teachers, not black teachers but 12 teachers. 13 black students in the Education Department at that 14 time. 15 I didn't have -- there was not too many But what happened, I was received and I would 16 get the kids to get -- and my thesis was this: 17 said, your women are God's angels. 18 God's angels, irrespective of their race, so 19 therefore, men, you are interested in human being, 20 opposite sex, not because of their race but you 21 should be interested in relating to them and 22 becoming friends to them irrespective of your 23 race. 24 25 I Women are And all of you women, you have to look at your relationship with God, not with the physical �42 1 being. 2 what they mean: 3 opportunity and employment, and that's what had a 4 real (18:36:14 indiscernible), because employees 5 will hire you and put you in a special section, a 6 black section. 7 The Constitution don't say that but that's All fair housing, all equal I worked at Armour's packing house when I was 8 in high school and I end up working in a black 9 section in the packing house, and after fair 10 housing law and the employment law was passed and 11 the union changed. 12 white and black. 13 of the black section, as the state legislatures 14 and other things began entry because of that. 15 The unions were basically You may be going to see the CIO In the Army it was segregated. I was in a 16 black partition in the infantry and the base 17 commander, when he saw me in Hawaii I was assigned 18 as a military policeman. 19 from a black section of where I lived, with the 20 black Army section, in that building, not an 21 integrated housing in the military, it was 22 segregated, but I was selected not to be a police 23 officer for just the black people but a police 24 officer to govern the performance of all soldiers. 25 That was interesting. They didn't have any Interesting. �43 1 (18:38:09) 2 MR. ARNOLD: Let's go back to when you were 3 the member of the Lawrence NAACP in I think 1964 4 and 1965, the Lawrence NAACP. 5 DR. MILAN: Well, I used the church as a 6 basis for expanding the teaching of God. 7 belonged to a black Baptist Church. 8 MR. ARNOLD: 9 DR. MILAN: 10 MR. ARNOLD: 11 DR. MILAN: I In Lawrence? No. I went to it. Okay. But I was, I had -- before I went 12 to Lawrence I was a member of the Episcopal 13 Church. 14 Kansas City, Kansas, on Third and Stewart, but the 15 population died, NAA -- only Alversa and me and 16 one other person, a member of the Trinity 17 Episcopal -- not Trinity, (18:39:16 indiscernible) 18 I'll get the name of it; black Episcopal Church in 19 Kansas City, Kansas, and St. Paul were responsible 20 for the district, for the bishop, sending him over 21 to continue that, because it was a black priest 22 that taught it, not a regular white priest, and 23 when he left, went someplace else, and the church 24 had to have a Episcopal priest, then one of the 25 priests from St. Paul's Episcopal Church, which There was a black Episcopal Church in �44 1 is, it's on, not 18th Street, 10th, it's not 10th 2 and Parallel. 3 about one block north or two blocks north of 4 Minnesota, and he would come over, and his church 5 was growing. 6 called the St. Paul, or Saint -- I still go to 7 that church -- St. Matthew's Episcopal Church out 8 on Saint -- not Saint Patrick. 9 it. 10 It was off of 10th Street, right He was assigned to what is now I can't think of I go there every Sunday, but when we started 11 there were 12 people. 12 black woman that came with us, and he had a few 13 friends that (18:41:04 indiscernible). 14 Episcopal -- not St. Paul's but -- I go every 15 Sunday. 16 think so. 17 you go 10th Highway and go west, and so I still go 18 there. 19 He and myself and that one St. Paul's Is it St. Matthew's Episcopal Church? I It's off of 10th and, 10th Street if But bishop at that time appointed me as the 20 population grew as an ordained deacon in the 21 Episcopal Church and I served to assist in the 22 development of the church service, as well as 23 performing it. 24 And every Sunday after church I took 25 communion to the sick and shut in, whole lot of �45 1 white folks. 2 theme songs when I walked in their home or the 3 hospital who were sick, I would walk in and after 4 I introduced myself, can Dr. Milan come in and 5 take me to the sick person and I'd come into 6 church, and even though they were sick we would 7 gather around a chair in a room and I'd open up my 8 song, I had my special song. 9 There ain't too many. And one of my The first song I would sing: (singing) "Lean 10 on me when you're not strong. 11 friend; I'll help you carry on. 12 long till you're gonna need somebody to lean on." 13 I'll be your Oh, it won't be And we all do, and that one person is God. 14 Lean on God. And once again, I'd say, if you 15 don't know where to go, go to chapter 30:32 and 16 listen and read the subject of God, about leaning 17 on each other. 18 you should become a friend of your neighbor. 19 was my thesis. Become a friend of God, and then That 20 But anyway, I served for 20, 25, 22, 25 21 years, when bishop said, "Dr. Milan, it's time for 22 you to retire." 23 bishop. 24 25 So I did, because he was the Because I traveled a lot, taught Sunday school, took kids camping. There were no black �46 1 families in that St. Paul's Episcopal Church -- 2 St. Matthew rather, but my wife and I and this one 3 lady that came with us from Trinity, and she died. 4 That's what happened to my population at Trinity: 5 They died. 6 me the congregation got together, after the Motor 7 Vehicle Department took my driver's license, and 8 developed a system to make sure I had a way to get 9 to church. And so the day when the bishop retired It's too far to walk from here out 10 10 Highway down the way to St. Matthew's Episcopal 11 Church. 12 (18:44:34) 13 MR. ARNOLD: That's wonderful. Let me take 14 you back to 1967, when Lawrence passed the Fair 15 Housing Ordinance, and there was a group called 16 the Fair Housing Coordinating Committee and many 17 organizations were part of that, the NAACP, the 18 League of Women Voters, -- 19 DR. MILAN: 20 MR. ARNOLD: I was a part of that. -- but also the churches were 21 very much involved. 22 churches, both white and black, helped to fight 23 for equality. 24 25 DR. MILAN: Tell me about how the Because I was a black member that taught their kids. I'd even come to their church �47 1 once in awhile. I knew all the black preachers and 2 I used that for the same way I used 30:32. 3 How can you teach love your neighbor as 4 yourself, how can you teach and you don't know how 5 to sit down and to help a child to overcome 6 looking at a white boy and a white girl and they 7 look at you and you look at them and separate each 8 other? 9 second place they began to integrate into Because generally the school was the 10 relationship, racial relation, not the military, 11 but it did after World War II, they say, oh, we 12 gotta, we gotta change this a little bit. 13 did. 14 They And I was a football player for the team in 15 Hawaii and made another mistake. I ended being 16 chosen as a second team quarterback in a 17 professional football team and played first team 18 quarterback, right halfback, first string, right 19 safety, (18:46:07 indiscernible), and I didn't 20 weigh but 150 pounds, but I knew how to hide the 21 football. 22 ball and go for that pass. 23 with -- they don't know how to take and hide that 24 football when you get it from the quarterback and 25 make a turn and do something (18:46:27 They don't do that today. They get the Don't do a damn thing �48 1 indiscernible), and them going that way and you go 2 that way, and they don't know where in the hell 3 the ball is. 4 But that was the purpose, not just to pass a 5 law for a law standpoint, but using the Bible as a 6 thesis for passing a law to improve the 7 relationship between human beings. 8 from a Christian standpoint. 9 it speaks from the Bible. 10 (18:47:02) 11 MR. ARNOLD: It wasn't sent I said it does, but Read it. Do you remember any of the other 12 people who were involved in that fair housing 13 coordinating committee? 14 Dulin from the Plymouth Congregational Church, who 15 was in charge of that organization? 16 17 DR. MILAN: (18:47:16) 19 MR. ARNOLD: 21 Many preachers of the church were in charge of the organization of that. 18 20 Yes. Do you remember Reverend The churches were very much involved in that effort? DR. MILAN: Uh-huh. They were. 22 know why? 23 just from a black standpoint. 24 relationship of God is all (18:47:37 25 indiscernible). Why? You They kept reading Christian emphasis, The racial You can't look at that. He ain't �49 1 a black God. 2 He's not a Mexican God. So that was my thesis and to improve the 3 quality of -- I don't remember all their names. 4 There were a lot of them. 5 (18:47:54) 6 MR. ARNOLD: 7 DR. MILAN: 8 MR. ARNOLD: 9 10 11 Right. Right. Many years ago? Yes. There were many, there were many -DR. MILAN: The reason I was selected, because I taught their kids. 12 (18:48:04) 13 MR. ARNOLD: Right. So you had a very good 14 reputation so people, did people look to you as a 15 leader of the black community because of your 16 strong reputation? 17 DR. MILAN: In part, but I was a leader of 18 the community period. 19 MR. ARNOLD: 20 DR. MILAN: Very good. I was serving, the representative 21 of us as separate people, and square dancing was 22 one of my interracial activities, as well as 23 basketball, but not as famous, but -- and then we 24 had relay teams. 25 sport, not a race, et cetera. Relay teams made a runner, a �50 1 So I was emphasizing, that's the reason I 2 became very active, was that organization, but I 3 was also a very popular target -- 4 MR. ARNOLD: 5 DR. MILAN: Right. -- from the black community that 6 didn't want to do that and the white community 7 didn't want it. 8 he really saved me, because there were folks, 9 black folks as well as white folks who did not 10 God saved me. I'm not kidding, want to come together. 11 (18:49:15) 12 MR. ARNOLD: So even some African-American 13 people were opposed to some of the things you were 14 trying to do? 15 DR. MILAN: 16 MR. ARNOLD: 17 DR. MILAN: Yes. And why was that? Because they feel like it's not 18 providing them an opportunity. They could not go 19 anywhere and get a job; they had to get a special 20 job. 21 They could not go anywhere in the school system. They could not go anywhere and get a house. 22 (Knocking; off the record. 23 taken.) 24 (18:51:32) 25 DR. MILAN: A recess was Well, and see, as a teacher I �51 1 didn't teach about race, I taught as a child of 2 God. 3 And I didn't finish my story with you about 4 Baker. When I became a professor at Baker I was 5 the first black professor in the history of that 6 school. 7 Kansas? Are you familiar with Baldwin City, 8 MR. ARNOLD: 9 DR. MILAN: A little bit. I've visited. It is not a populated system of 10 racial mixture, Mexican or black, mostly a white 11 population, agriculture, you're basically a 12 farmer, and the school system was 290,000 13 (18:52:13) white. 14 in that town. 15 were living...farming nearby, but not that many. 16 My point is only white students There were a few Mexicans but they Most of them were all white, and so when they 17 created an organization on campus there was no 18 black fraternity or sorority, none, but there was 19 what we call like a, there were members from the 20 black fraternity and white fraternity and white 21 sorority. 22 could not (18:52:56 indiscernible) open a 23 organization just for black people, so -- have you 24 ever heard that song God's Angels? 25 that song? I was a member of Kappa Alpha Psi but I Have you heard You don't sing that song? �52 1 2 3 MR. ARNOLD: No, I don't think I've heard that. DR. MILAN: How could you (18:53:12 4 indiscernible) with a woman you don't sing that 5 song? 6 That's what I did. I used the thesis, 30:32. 7 I said: You are all children of God, male or 8 female, but you are special creators. 9 have babies. Men don't God created you for the purpose of 10 reproducing the population, another human being. 11 That's why you are a special creator of God, and 12 so I say you are one of God's angels, and I taught 13 them that song. 14 (Singing) Oh, angel, earth angel, will you be 15 mine? My darling dear, I will love you all the 16 time. Yes, I will love you all the time. 17 angel, an angel of God. 18 Just an Love your neighbor as yourself, not the black 19 or the white, and the young men from South Africa 20 said, Dr. Milan, we use this term, maybe not 21 knowing about that Bible reference, but that's 22 what we say: 23 we use a special language, Mungano. Love your neighbor as yourself, but 24 And with a professor at Baker University, our 25 neighbors there, she sat right there in that chair �53 1 -- no, that chair right there. 2 she produced a book. 3 someone took a lot of special stuff out of my book 4 that they bought, and the title of it is The 5 History of Mungano. 6 taken out by (18:55:17 indiscernible) because 7 (indiscernible) population again. 8 (18:55:28) 9 MR. ARNOLD: I sat there, and I let them look at it and Many of my page have been Here you go. Well, Dr. Milan, let me take you 10 back again to the Fair Housing Ordinance in 11 Lawrence and in January, 1967, the fair housing 12 coordinating committee went to the Lawrence Human 13 Relations Commission and you were one of the 14 people who spoke -- 15 DR. MILAN: 16 MR. ARNOLD: That's right. -- and made the case for why 17 Lawrence needed a fair housing ordinance. 18 remember -- 19 DR. MILAN: 20 I use it today. 21 MR. ARNOLD: 22 DR. MILAN: Do you Yes, and I used this the same as We are all creatures of God. Right. And I think you -- We are all creations of God and 23 God is not separating us, it's that the human 24 being are developing cultural ways of saying that 25 we can better off this way and maybe we'll think �54 1 about God later on. 2 black and white churches, not God's churches. 3 Even the churches develop You could not go to a white church and find a 4 black person in that church, yet they talking 5 about Christianity. 6 Christianity, you're not talking about God's 7 Christianity. 8 tell you. 9 I say you talking about white Oh, I caught my hell, I'm gonna The people did everything they can to try to 10 get rid of me, but God protected me. 11 their guns shooting and I had a lot of things. 12 (18:56:42) 13 MR. ARNOLD: Right. They had Well, so the Human 14 Relations Commission was very convinced by the 15 case that was made and so they took the ordinance 16 to the City Commission and you testified before 17 the City Commission. 18 DR. MILAN: 19 20 21 22 Do you remember that? I testified before them, yes, sir, the same thing I'm talking to you about. MR. ARNOLD: Did they seem very positive to your message? DR. MILAN: Some did, some didn't, because 23 this country was not built on people but they 24 think white folks were the reason this country 25 came into being and they don't think that other �55 1 folks have a right to come and do that. That's 2 why I'm going to say to you, my client works with 3 me and I work with her, Hillary Clinton, in 4 addressing some of these problems that people were 5 facing. 6 I said, how can you go to church on Sunday 7 and preach about this and this and this and yet 8 you cannot come out of the church and preach about 9 the gospel of God, of all people, because you are 10 a creator of God? 11 then you are sure enough a devil. 12 13 And that's my thesis. It's still my thesis, even here. 14 (18:57:59) 15 MR. ARNOLD: 16 If you don't understand that, Well, the City Commission passed the ordinance four to one in favor and -- 17 DR. MILAN: And they didn't pass it simply 18 because it's the law, because of the thesis of my 19 -- 20 MR. ARNOLD: So they were convinced by people 21 like you that it was the right thing to do in the 22 eyes of God and of equality? 23 DR. MILAN: Exactly. You cannot improve the 24 relationship of people based upon physical 25 existence, you gotta do that on the improvement of �56 1 spiritual relationship and who are you related to. 2 Now, some people would say, yes, I'd say you 3 must be related to Satan. 4 hell. 5 are people today who still believe in Satan. 6 You give other people Satan came along to do just that, and there And my thesis said no, irrespective of your 7 physical condition. Mungano does not look at the 8 physical condition, they look at all of God's 9 angels, and the boys would come on and they'd say, 10 "yes, they're real angels, baby." 11 ha. 12 But -- and that's my thesis. 13 MR. ARNOLD: 14 DR. MILAN: Ha, ha, ha, ha, Right. And what helped that law pass was 15 the emphasis of a Christian education about the 16 relationship of church and God's people, and when 17 you read the Bible, if you don't pay attention to 18 30:32, then you ain't a Christian, you're related 19 to the man downstairs called the devil. 20 (18:59:34) 21 MR. ARNOLD: Right. Now, after the law was 22 passed do you think the real estate agents then 23 changed their practices? 24 better? 25 DR. MILAN: Do you think things got Not a hundred percent, no. White �57 1 real estate agents continued to go to primary 2 system of the white population, and when a black 3 person came along they tried, they'd try to find a 4 black location. 5 speaking experience, because putting a black 6 person in a white neighborhood, they caught hell, 7 then and now. 8 (19:00:12) 9 MR. ARNOLD: I'm not speaking theory, I'm Yes. But there were many white 10 families that supported having African-Americans 11 move into their neighborhoods. 12 13 DR. MILAN: I know -- After they understand their religion. 14 MR. ARNOLD: 15 DR. MILAN: Okay. If the preacher didn't help them, 16 then they didn't cause them to change their 17 attitude. 18 (19:00:27) 19 MR. ARNOLD: 20 21 22 So the churches played an important role in changing attitudes? DR. MILAN: They, they -- important role in changing attitude. 23 MR. ARNOLD: 24 DR. MILAN: 25 (19:00:37) Okay. Some did then and some did now. �58 1 MR. ARNOLD: Now I want to talk to you about 2 the swimming pool in Lawrence. 3 involved -- 4 DR. MILAN: 5 MR. ARNOLD: 6 swimming pool. Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho. DR. MILAN: 8 MR. ARNOLD: 10 -- in efforts to integrate the Were you involved in the 1960 -- 7 9 I know you were You damn right I was. What was your involvement in the protest in 1960 against the Jayhawk Plunge? DR. MILAN: We couldn't go there. We could 11 not go to that pool when they opened up that pool, 12 just the same as we cannot go and sit anywhere in 13 a show. 14 long time to change that, after the swimming pool 15 was changed, letting them come and swim anywhere. 16 We could not go and swim anywhere. 17 special day they set aside for black people to 18 come, which we said, no, no, no, no, no, we are 19 not going to go just on a black day, we are going 20 to go when you open up the pool. 21 We had special seats. It took them a We'd go on See, because I was one of the city Recreation 22 Department. I said, "We don't just have things 23 for black students or white students, we have a 24 recreational activity for all students that come 25 to the community building down on the main �59 1 street." 2 downtown? You know the community building 3 MR. ARNOLD: 4 DR. MILAN: Uh-huh. Well, we would go there and we'd 5 all play together. 6 together. 7 neighborhood. 8 school together, and when we come to school 9 together we got to look at our neighbor. 10 11 No, we must learn how to live Now, we're not in the same Now we're beginning to come to Have you ever had anybody throw bombs at your house? 12 MR. ARNOLD: 13 DR. MILAN: 14 MR. ARNOLD: 15 DR. MILAN: 16 MR. WAGNER: 17 DR. MILAN: 18 MR. ARNOLD: 19 DR. MILAN: No, sir. You haven't? No. You have, haven't you? No, no, sir. You know, it's pathetic. It is. It's horrible. But my position was not just 20 recreation for black students, I was assistant 21 superintendent of the Lawrence Recreation 22 Department for all population and I didn't teach 23 based upon race, I taught based upon sexual 24 relationship, because you are God's angel and you 25 are God's angel, too, but not the kind of angel �60 1 that she is. She is created for the purpose of 2 taking that seed and producing another human 3 being. 4 relationship of being a human being, one of God's 5 children, and I still operate that way today. Your job is to communicate that 6 (19:03:15) 7 MR. ARNOLD: Right. Now, in November, 1967, 8 the bond issue finally passed after it failed 9 twice to pass to -- 10 DR. MILAN: 11 MR. ARNOLD: 12 13 You know why it failed twice? -- raise money -- tell me why it failed twice. DR. MILAN: Because the population in the 14 local population for the enforcement of the 15 opposition to what that law meant to them. 16 don't want mixed race, we don't want this, we want 17 to continue to be the boss, white folks. 18 (19:03:41) 19 MR. ARNOLD: Yes. We Now, when it finally 20 passed in November of 1967 I know you had a role 21 in helping to get it to pass. 22 bit about that. 23 DR. MILAN: 24 25 Tell us a little I did, because I was reaching them the same as I'm telling you. MR. ARNOLD: Right. But didn't you encourage �61 1 some youths to go around door to door and 2 encourage people to vote yes? 3 DR. MILAN: Yes, I did. You know why? Not 4 just to vote yes, that you are going to 5 communicate God's message. 6 creatures. 7 not an angel that's a man but you are a supporter 8 of God's angels. 9 in marriage? You are one of God's You are one of his angels. You are Don't the man support the family 10 MR. ARNOLD: 11 DR. MILAN: But a lot of time it's not looked 12 upon like that. We have a special role as a human 13 being irrespective of your race. 14 same role. 15 what Matthew says. 16 hell. 17 Absolutely. You have the Every man has the same role of doing If you don't you will go to So that was my thesis to communicate that to 18 the preachers, who didn't preach that, they 19 preached about God's relationship with the white 20 church. 21 talk about it from that perspective. 22 community some of them did not. 23 didn't want you coming to their church and some of 24 them didn't want white folks coming to black 25 church, because they were accustomed to He didn't say white church but he did not In the Some of them �62 1 nonreligious relationship, but that was my thesis 2 as a teacher, as a student, as I grew up. 3 (19:05:33) 4 MR. ARNOLD: Tell me a little bit about after 5 the Fair Housing Ordinance passed in 1967 and then 6 the pool bond issue passed. 7 necessarily get better in Lawrence, in fact they 8 got worse with the violence in 1969 and 1970. 9 Tell me about some of your involvements and 10 11 Things didn't experiences with the violent protests. DR. MILAN: That's why we brought the NAACP 12 to Lawrence and in Kansas and to this country. 13 That's why it growed up, because the object was 14 not to just look at your race, you were looking at 15 the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, it wasn't 16 just to protect black folk. 17 in this country must contribute to its 18 development, and that's what I use, I still use, 19 my mother, my father taught. 20 All people who live My mother was an Indian, my father was a 21 slave on the Milan, Tennessee, in Milan, 22 Tennessee, and she was a Depue Indian, and that 23 relationship increases my theory of God's 24 relationship. 25 It's a big difference. It was not easy. It was passed because many �63 1 people voted yes from a popular standpoint, not 2 for economic standpoint, not for social 3 standpoint, not for increasing the relationship of 4 American citizens. No. 5 Have you ever been someplace and they 6 wouldn't let you eat or in or go do this because 7 you were a black citizen? 8 American citizen, you were a black citizen, and 9 those things have -- I worked at Armour's packing 10 house and they had a black section, and as it grew 11 in population it gradually, the union changed the 12 integration of employment station, except for 13 women. 14 No, you were not an Women today are not equally treated in 15 employment. I had a lady that was the clerk for 16 Bonner Springs school district for 20, 20 some odd 17 years and when I moved in the area she contacted 18 me, because I was a member of the NAACP, and I am 19 still a member of the NAACP. 20 NAACP as just a black organization, I said we are 21 gathering together as black people to change the 22 relationship of us in this country in all 23 spectrums of the culture of this country, and 24 that's why we have to emphasize the improvement of 25 laws that emphasize God's message. I didn't see the �64 1 We are all children of God. 2 your face and your color's (19:08:54 3 indiscernible) you are still a child of God, and 4 that's how I still, I rate that way. 5 that still do not rate that way, even here. 6 (19:09:07) 7 MR. ARNOLD: Right. Just because Got people Were you surprised in 8 1969 when violence broke out in Lawrence? 9 that surprise you or did you -- 10 DR. MILAN: 11 MR. ARNOLD: -- think there was -- 12 DR. MILAN: I tried to prevent it. 13 MR. ARNOLD: Did No. Tell us about some of the things 14 you were involved in in trying to prevent some of 15 it. 16 DR. MILAN: Through the church, ministry, 17 preachers. I'd say, "You have a responsibility of 18 improving the relationship," and the white 19 preacher I'd say the same thing, "You have a 20 responsibility of improving God's children 21 relationship, not just because of your church, 22 because you, the church is supposed to be a member 23 of God's community. 24 and still look at it independent as a race group, 25 then you will not make a change." If you don't recognize that �65 1 This country, the way they treated the 2 Indians when they came over here, because the 3 Indians were in charge of everything, they didn't 4 see it that somebody was in charge, living off the 5 gift of God, and so the white man, when he came 6 here he came here for the purpose of becoming the 7 owner, leader, director, and not -- and 8 controlling who did what, and it's still that way. 9 I was telling you about the employment of a 10 young lady who was employed as a clerk in the 11 cafeteria in the school system in Bonner Springs 12 and one day she'd been very successful and her 13 evaluation by the Board of Education and the 14 school board was very, was very excellent, 15 excellent as to education and working 16 responsibility, because it's now an integrated 17 school system; all children were treated the same. 18 As a black woman she helped the white kids and the 19 black kids and et cetera. 20 And one day a young man, a white man, came, 21 was hired and he had a daughter that needed a job 22 and they fired this black woman, and she didn't 23 know what the hell to do, except she heard about 24 me as a fighter for the improvement of black 25 people and she made a (indiscernible 19:11:52) and �66 1 came to me, and so what I did, I listened to her 2 and I says, "Okay, we're going to file a complaint 3 but before we do that we going to get some 4 information." 5 She gave me her record of history written by 6 the school education, how well she performed, 7 because Bonner Springs was then beginning to get 8 integrated, having white kids and black kids in 9 the same school and eat the same place in the 10 cafeteria, and she was treating all those kids the 11 same. 12 And so I said, "Okay, give me a copy." So I 13 got copies of those and I prepared them and I send 14 them to the court that made the decision, and the 15 lawyer got copies of it, and I said to them, "On 16 what basis did you see to fire this black woman 17 when her performance on the job was excellent, not 18 based upon race, upon the way of working with and 19 helping all of the people who came through her 20 cafeteria and how to help them, black or white or 21 Mexican or whatever? 22 you wrote the, this information about excellent in 23 work." 24 25 And guess what? So why do you fire her? And The court changed their decision but could not get her fired, they gave �67 1 her $35,000, and she called me up. 2 Milan, how much do I owe you?" 3 damn thing. 4 equality of American law." 5 6 She said, "Dr. I said, "Not a That's my job, to help you get And even today every month she'll come by and give me $20. 7 MR. ARNOLD: 8 DR. MILAN: Wow. She developed a stamp population, 9 a stamp office as, with her money, (19:14:07 10 indiscernible) and she'll bring me stamps, 10 11 stamps a week -- a month. 12 any money. 13 momma and my poppa taught me. 14 and he was a man who lived on, who was a slave on 15 a white man's farm and they lived a different life 16 trying to create equality of all people and 17 equality of his children, and he did that, all of 18 us, four of us, his kids. 19 along with the white (19:15:52 indiscernible). I'm not hired. 20 (Phone ringing. 21 DR. MILAN: 22 MR. HENNING: 23 voting Democrat. 24 All right. 25 But I didn't ask for I'm doing what my She was an Indian We learned how to get Off the record.) I'm going to vote Democrat. Okay. The doctor will be Thanks so much for your call. Talk to you soon. DR. MILAN: The reason I'm going to vote for �68 1 Hillary Clinton, I don't call this guy, what's his 2 name, Donald what? 3 MR. ARNOLD: 4 DR. MILAN: 5 MR. ARNOLD: 6 DR. MILAN: Donald Trump. No, it's not. Donald Dump. Oh. He preaches and he talks and he 7 do whatever he can to degrade her. I was 8 responsible (19:15:47 indiscernible) not just 9 degrading women for sex. 10 But when I went into this young lady's 11 apartment (19:15:57 indiscernible) and got that 12 population and presented it to the Board of 13 Education they were shocked. 14 when we didn't -- we give this kind of (19:16:08 15 indiscernible) for 20 some odd years, evaluation 16 of her, why did we fire her? 17 little white girl could take her place. 18 years they tried to fire the little white girl but 19 her daddy wouldn't let them. Why did we fire her, Only 'cause that After two 20 This country was established on racial 21 emphasis, because Indians were not viewed as same 22 human being as the white man when they came to 23 this country, so that's why there are white 24 population of white seniority became a part, a 25 part of American culture, and it's still a part of �69 1 2 American culture. (19:16:53 audio interference, indiscernible) 3 I wouldn't be living here if that had not been 4 improved, those laws had not been passed. 5 laws were passed to put into practice the practice 6 of God. 7 (19:17:12) 8 MR. ARNOLD: 9 The Dr. Milan, I know you've been working for equality for many, many years. One of 10 the things you did in Lawrence in the 1960s is you 11 ran for the City Commission twice. 12 you failed, but talk to us a little bit about why 13 you decided to run for the City Commission. 14 did you hope to accomplish? 15 DR. MILAN: Because I'm black. Unfortunately What I was black, 16 that's why, not because of my knowledge and 17 influence. 18 that position to tell white folk what to do. 19 That's why. 20 I was black, I would run because I wanted to 21 develop the thesis of the Bible of living together 22 and helping each other and building things 23 together. 24 don't change. 25 They didn't want to see a black man in I didn't care. I didn't run because I still have that same attitude. I'm only 88 years old. I I ain't gonna change. �70 1 2 I got this knee on my 88th birthday. I learned that from my mother and my father, 3 a black man and an Indian, living together and 4 raising us differently, because there were white 5 folks and black folks, they didn't like Indians, 6 they still don't, but that thesis, they still 7 operate that way, still operate of bringing kids 8 on -- two weeks ago a young man who was a graduate 9 of Baker University and he came here and knocked 10 on my door, said, "Dr. Milan, I gotta see you. 11 read about you in Mungano and I became a member of 12 Mungano and I enjoy it and I appreciate what you 13 did with them and for us." 14 appreciate what you do for me." 15 I I said, "Well, I But, you know, it's not interesting, so what 16 I did then and I still do, I use the Bible as that 17 thesis to improve relationships. 18 Lawrence was very tough, very tough, but I helped 19 the kids who went out for basketball at the high 20 school and changed the attitude about it, and made 21 the team, and the same way junior high. 22 (19:19:55) 23 MR. ARNOLD: Race relation in Now, when you first started 24 teaching in the Lawrence schools were the sports 25 teams segregated? �71 1 DR. MILAN: No. They -- you (19:20:05 2 indiscernible) see a black athlete has the 3 possibility of performing. 4 that time, slowly graduation of black folk in 5 professional sports. 6 It was gradually at I had a chance to go to a professional 7 football team and I went out (19:20:23 8 indiscernible), I was an all star, seventh 9 division in college basketball and a college team, 10 a northern school, and I was selected not because 11 I was black, because of the way I played football, 12 way I handled the ball, and increased the 13 population and success of the team. 14 look at that was he black, they looked at me as a 15 football player, and that's -- today they don't 16 have that. 17 stuff in professional football. They didn't They don't have very many creative 18 (19:21:09) 19 MR. ARNOLD: I don't watch it. Do you think K.U. sports played 20 a role in helping to improve things in Lawrence 21 with people like Wilt Chamberlain, who came to 22 play? 23 Did that help with -- DR. MILAN: No. My wife dealt with Wilt 24 Chamberlain, wife dealt with all them black 25 athletes that came through, because of me, and �72 1 they saw that and they saw how important it was to 2 not just to be a black player but to develop team 3 relationship on the team, during the game, not 4 after the game, not summertime, but during the 5 game you gotta look at team relationship, not as a 6 race but as a skill that you have and they have, 7 and teaching, that's what I do. 8 My mother and my father taught me how to 9 behave, because in my population there were games 10 that hated white folks and Mexican, they created 11 all kind of stuff. 12 Couple weeks ago I was in this group here 13 that took a tour to Armourdale. 14 grew up. 15 Black folk lived only in white section of 16 Armourdale, Mexican lived in the other section, 17 but they had a few white folks they lived with but 18 not black folks, and there were no excuse. 19 That's where I Armourdale was very, very segregated. You couldn't even buy, you couldn't go down 20 to the store and shop. You had to go to a shop 21 and come through the black section (19:23:04 22 indiscernible), Katz, all them stores. 23 that's changed, not because they changed it, 24 because we said we are citizens of this country 25 the same as you are, and we pursued that and we Today �73 1 2 have to teach racial relationship. We have to teach Bible relationship more than 3 racial. You don't understand the Bible, I can 4 appreciate that because Satan is telling you what 5 the hell to do, and I still do that right even 6 here, that I don't look at racial relationship, I 7 look at human relationship. 8 So that was my thesis whenever I get my 9 teaching and preaching and -- one of my most 10 difficult situation was the cause of maintaining 11 the black organization I created for equal 12 opportunity through the NAACP, still doing that. 13 The NAACP is seeking racial relation, not black 14 relation, improve the quality of life of all 15 people and opportunity. 16 because he or she is denied that opportunity. 17 don't think if you have evaluated the employment 18 of women white women get a better population than 19 black women but all women get discriminated, same 20 thing, they only get the second portion of 21 (19:24:54 indiscernible), the paycheck and what 22 have you. 23 You select a black person I One of the most famous songs I remember, I 24 still sing it, I still sing it, because they say 25 it every day. Every day at the packing house, I �74 1 was living in Armourdale and working at Armour's 2 packing house, my father worked there as well, and 3 every Friday at noon the paycheck, the clerk would 4 come through and hand you your paycheck. 5 dollar, another day, another dollar. 6 that: 7 spend that damn dollar anywhere. Another day, another dollar. Another I still say But you could 8 You ever hear that song, Kansas City? 9 (Singing) 10 City, here I come. 11 and I'm gonna get me, they say one, I say two. 12 Going to Kansas City. Kansas There's some busy little women Going to 18th and Vine. Lincoln Theater was 13 a very popular theater for black (19:25:58 14 indiscernible). 15 was owned and run by black people, sit any damn 16 where you want to in the hospital, at Lincoln. 17 Cole down the street from there, in Kansas City, 18 Missouri. They could go in that theater, it 19 In Kansas City, Kansas, they built a theater 20 on 10th Street, and I know it's on 10th Street, I 21 can't think of the crossing street, but only black 22 people could go there. 23 to, but a black man could not go to any school 24 downtown Kansas City, Missouri, Kansas City, 25 Kansas, until the law was passed, and then when White can if they wanted �75 1 that happened it was not an easy law for you to go 2 to that church or to go to that school or to go to 3 that show. 4 (19:26:45) 5 MR. HENNING: 6 7 The Gem, right, in the Gem? that what you're talking about? DR. MILAN: Uh-huh. Is Gem Theater? That's one of the 8 theaters that was located for black folks, and we 9 went, and only when they passed the law to improve 10 the equality of movie and educational, social, as 11 well as physical places for all races, it's not a 12 racial relation citizenship. 13 this country become citizens of this country, and 14 that's why we changed it, and we're still trying 15 to change it. 16 MR. ARNOLD: 17 DR. MILAN: All persons born in Right. Now, we haven't achieved it, 18 because the second most difficult issue is women, 19 changing the equality of women in this country, 20 because they are still being paid less money by 21 the man for the same damn job. 22 (19:27:58) 23 MR. ARNOLD: Right. Dr. Milan, you left 24 Lawrence in 1971. Why did you leave? Was it 25 because of threats or did you simply have other �76 1 opportunities that you wanted to take up 2 elsewhere? 3 DR. MILAN: No, I left because of the Ku Klux 4 Klan. 5 threat. 6 benefit of my children, and that's what I did. 7 found a house, and the last one I built in Kansas 8 City, Kansas, was right up the street, 7103 9 Waverly Avenue. 10 The whole time I was there I got the I said I need to make a move for the I I got more criticism from a section of the 11 white population, not the whole population, 12 because there were some who got to know us, my 13 wife and my four children, and I still operate the 14 same way, and the reason I got a better friendship 15 with the white families in the neighborhood is 16 because of my thesis. 17 What church you belong at? Told them, 18 Episcopal Church. 19 in one. 20 church but there was the Episcopal, black 21 Episcopal church, and I say, "I'm not going to 22 give up my religion because I'm the only black 23 person." 24 25 Not a black church. I grew up But when I moved there was no black So Trinity Episcopal Church in Lawrence, Kansas, you know where that church is? It's right �77 1 on the corner, downtown Lawrence. My family and I 2 went there and were well received, and they gave 3 me a heck of a responsibility, teaching Sunday 4 school and doing this and teaching the young, and 5 I had the youth group that really supported me, 6 not because I was race but because I preached 7 this: 8 woman because she's a woman and not just because 9 she's your race but that's human creation, You gotta love your neighbor, not just a 10 understanding your role as a creator of God and to 11 carry out God's responsibility. 12 Every day I sing that song as I walk around 13 the building outside and inside in the hallway: 14 (Singing) 15 just black folk, walk with Jesus Christ. 16 Just a closer walk with thee. Not with And when I sing that song I sing it to you. 17 We gonna walk with Jesus Christ and me because I'm 18 gonna think about you while I'm walking 19 irrespective of your race and your sex or your 20 gender, and that's how I operate. 21 everybody that knows me, I have many people who 22 hate me and have taken my life but I have more 23 people who protected me and more kids as well as 24 white kids and black kids and God, because I 25 strongly believe, if you ever go to Baldwin go and Nobody -- �78 1 sit with the people in Mungano. 2 that way. I don't have a car. 3 the show. I cannot go to church unless I walk 4 several miles to my church, Episcopal Church, over 5 there, here, but why should I give up my church? 6 And they said, "Because we're not gonna let you," 7 and they pick me up and doesn't cost me one dime. 8 (19:31:57) 9 MR. ARNOLD: That's great. I can't travel I can't even go to Now, after you 10 left Lawrence you went to work for the Housing and 11 Urban, Department of Housing and Urban Development 12 and still worked on fair housing issues? 13 about that. 14 DR. MILAN: Tell me Well, I became a fair housing 15 employee of the seventh district employment 16 office, it was, we were located downtown Kansas 17 City, Missouri, and I was assigned as a fair 18 housing responsibility and discrimination in other 19 areas and I investigated complaints of 20 discrimination in employment, in housing, and what 21 have you. 22 I found many cases where a house was changed 23 in an all white -- black -- white neighborhood and 24 they bombed the house and did everything they 25 could, and I am (?19:32:59), and there were black �79 1 folks who wanted to build guns up and become a 2 strong army against white folks. 3 that's not gonna work." 4 more than God? 5 care about particular integration, fair housing, 6 Satan (19:33:29 indiscernible) only black people 7 do what black people want, only white people do 8 what white people want, hate each other, don't 9 love each other. 10 Satan. I said, "Nope, You know who you respect Satan don't particularly But there are people today who still don't do 11 that. We still have that issue, and that's what I 12 preached, advocated as a -- I would take students 13 to put on demonstrations of a physical education 14 activity, and one was square dancing and one of 15 the games, to parents and other. 16 loved me not because I was black, because I 17 emphasized loving not just because you're white, 18 because we're working together. 19 teach you L-O-V-E, love. 20 physical activity, it's a social activity, and 21 today we haven't overcome that. 22 overcome that, but I don't care, I'm going to do 23 my best, my best. 24 MR. ARNOLD: 25 DR. MILAN: The children My job is to Love is not just a We have not Very good. One of the most important things �80 1 in my life was singing to women. 2 don't sing to men. 3 us to sing to women, because I really view them as 4 God's angel, and we are angels, too, but God's 5 create them in a special way, to take the seed and 6 produce another human being, and we are to love 7 that human being because we gave the seed from God 8 with that potential, so God's gift to me, and I 9 pass it on through the process of sex and now look 10 I still do. I sing with them. I But I teach at me. 11 I have good friends, irrespective of their 12 race. 13 that needs to continue to be psychologically, 14 psychologically emphasized in that book, because 15 Satan's still teaching. 16 Race relation is a very strong relation Did you see what happened on TV the other 17 day? Do you ever listen to Channel 4? 18 still shooting women. 19 other. 20 not God. 21 the lessons of Satan today, in business, in social 22 activities, in homes, in group gatherings 23 (indiscernible 19:36:39) how women and men are 24 separated in two ways, how a Asian, 25 African-American, Indian, are treated differently. Why? Men are Men are still shooting each Satan is telling them what to do, There's still that population that takes �81 1 My dad was that way because he was a slave of 2 a white man population, a slave on a, of a white 3 man slave (19:37:21 indiscernible) in Milan, 4 Tennessee. 5 had sex with a slave woman. 6 (indiscernible 19:37:33) had sex with the same 7 woman and gave birth and then gave him the name 8 Milan. 9 wasn't no damn Milan. 10 That's how he got the name Milan. He didn't. He His boss That's how he got the name Milan. He She wasn't either. And that's where I use that name for. We 11 have every -- and my father's complexion was very, 12 very, not like this white. 13 from my mother, red. She was an Indian. 14 moved from Oklahoma. What's the name of that, 15 starts with a D? 16 was a cowboy. 17 had a big gun on his side. 18 I got my complexion And they They moved from that, because he He traveled like I don't know what, He moved from there to Omaha, Nebraska. 19 Omaha was very segregated, a northern city, and 20 they called themselves integrated because they had 21 a section of town for where black people could 22 live and the Mexicans could live, and they haven't 23 changed that much, because people didn't move out 24 of their property, they had kids and they moved to 25 the same neighborhood. �82 1 But they moved to Kansas City, to Armourdale, 2 and he went to work at Patman's packing house, and 3 that's where I grew up. 4 segregated in Armourdale. 5 familiar with Osage, it was one of the popular 6 cities(? 19:39:07) in Armourdale, Kansas City 7 street come through. 8 9 But it was very I don't know if you're On Seventh and Osage every Saturday the Olympic, the -- not Olympic. What do they call 10 it? 11 can't think of the name of it, but anyway, black 12 folks created an organization like that, but when 13 I was in second and third, third grade, third and 14 fourth grade I was a, my (19:39:45 indiscernible) 15 and some of the other boxers were beginning to 16 grow up and box and they developed the boxing 17 sport and this white organization created an 18 opportunity for the kids there in Armourdale, at 19 Seventh and Osage every Saturday they would 20 volunteer to sign up to box and some age and team 21 and race, not race, but they mixed it. 22 Optimist Club, it's a white Optimist Club, I And I was chosen to go boxing one day. Now, 23 if you win your three rounds you got a loaf of 24 Taystee bread. 25 that was tremendous, a loaf of Taystee bread, and Back in the late '30s, early '30s, �83 1 you take it home, but sometimes some folk didn't 2 get home, but when I won my round I got home, 3 because I took my loaf of bread and ran like hell. 4 They couldn't catch me. 5 track skills. 6 That's where I learned my My older brother's name is Clarence. He 7 taught me how to box, because boxing had become a 8 very interesting sport in this country, and he 9 taught me how to box, and I learned how to box. 10 didn't weigh very much, was third grade, second 11 grade, fourth grade, (19:41:24 indiscernible), but 12 when we moved to Wyandotte they didn't have that 13 kind of activity. 14 I So I gave up boxing and I was playing 15 baseball and I was teaching my brother how to bat, 16 my older brother, and I was pitching and I got hit 17 in the left eye by the bat, which was taken from 18 the wall of the garage with a nail in it, and it 19 went in my eye and as I grew up I had to have eye 20 surgery and I had to have eye surgery in my right 21 eye and my left eye and when I lost that vision, 22 because I was in high school and then married and 23 I was living right up the street, they took my 24 car, I gave it to the rest of the family because I 25 couldn't drive, because my wife took me everywhere �84 1 2 I needed to go, and so that's what I did. But that was where I learned that it's by 3 God's creation that I'm able to survive, and I do 4 that today. 5 So teaching is not just going to college and 6 learning from the classroom content and method 7 that you are to impart to collective bodies in the 8 school system by the grace of race -- not race, 9 but age and sex, women role, male role, and 10 whatever, but I don't do that. I said physical 11 education is not a subject to emphasize physical 12 being, the teaching you of various games and 13 activities and movement, it's teaching you how to 14 use the tools that you have, your arms, your legs, 15 your eyes, and your brain, and your mouth, how to 16 use that information collectively as a group 17 activity, and I still teach that. 18 But I had some white teachers when I was 19 teaching at the sixth and seventh grade said, "Dr. 20 Milan, why don't we get together and go to Kansas 21 City and have a good time?" 22 teacher. 23 to give me a check for a thousand dollars." 24 said, "I don't have that kind of money." 25 "Too bad. It was a white I said, "Okay, but before that you have We can't go." They I said, �85 1 She didn't want to go with me because I was 2 me. 3 other black men. 4 same as I did, respectful and (19:44:20 5 indiscernible) and so forth. 6 they liked the way I sang. 7 I'm a black man and I wasn't living like A lot of black men lived the And I sang a lot and And I sang this one song to my wife for 49 8 years. She died on our 49th year wedding 9 anniversary. And you probably have heard this 10 song but you probably don't sing it. 11 married -- and I had a couple wanted me to sing 12 that song at their wedding. 13 (Singing) When you get Since I met you, baby, my whole 14 life has changed. 15 life has changed, and everybody tells me that I 16 ain't the same. 17 Since I met you, baby, my whole (19:45:05 indiscernible) not the same because 18 you won't let me want to do what I want to do. 19 But God says love your neighbor as yourself, not 20 just with sex, not just for fun, not just to pick 21 up somebody, not just to beat up somebody or to 22 try this. 23 know that person and how to understand that person 24 and they you and your situation for the purpose of 25 your advancement, of growth and relationship of No. Develop a relationship of how to �86 1 human being. 2 yourself, and you gotta learn how to do that. 3 God says love your neighbor as I said, "Now the reason I teach you physical 4 education in the classroom is not just an activity 5 but learn how to take the message of a physical 6 activity to perform and how to join the 7 performance with your neighbor, they call it 8 teamwork, but how to do that and have a good time, 9 loving your neighbor through that." 10 And not only that, take the method of 11 listening to that instruction when the teacher is 12 giving you instruction in the classroom on how to 13 solve a problem, so listen to the parts of the 14 problem that she tells you about that you need to 15 address and relate, this and that, and as a result 16 improve your ability: 17 how to identify what is this thing you're writing 18 about called, the subject, and how to use the 19 other words to make it a valuable, easy 20 communication activity. How to write a sentence, 21 Excuse me. 22 And that was my teaching. 23 I still teach that that way. 24 (19:46:57) 25 MR. ARNOLD: That's wonderful. Dr. Milan, I �87 1 have run out of questions and we have been going 2 for a long time. 3 4 Scott, did you have anything you wanted to ask about? 5 MR. WAGNER: No. 6 MR. ARNOLD: Anything else you'd like to add 7 that we didn't cover? 8 DR. MILAN: 9 Now you want to take a can of pop to your wife or your -- 10 (Laughter) 11 MR. ARNOLD: Well, thank you so much. 12 has been wonderful. 13 DR. MILAN: This Well, I want to tell you another 14 thing. If you'd like to have me come to Lawrence 15 for a special occasion I'd be glad to come, except 16 I ain't got no way to get there. 17 MR. WAGNER: Okay. 18 DR. MILAN: 19 MR. WAGNER: Well, we can get you there. 20 MR. ARNOLD: We are actually thinking the It's too damn far to walk. 21 spring, in April, there's going to be some 22 commemorations of the fair housing ordinance and 23 this is part of that project, but I know Scott and 24 the City and probably the Watkins Museum would 25 love to have you come back to Lawrence and we will �88 1 figure out a way to get you there if you want to 2 come and participate in those activities. 3 MR. WAGNER: 4 DR. MILAN: 5 MR. ARNOLD: No. 6 MR. WAGNER: We'll have somebody -- 7 DR. MILAN: 8 MR. WAGNER: 9 10 Right. I could catch a bus. I have --- make sure we get you transportation to Lawrence. DR. MILAN: I don't have no money. My check, 11 my wife, Alversa, when I retired she developed how 12 to handle my check, because when they gave me the 13 check at work I brought it and gave it to her and 14 she decided what I needed and what I didn't need, 15 but what she would do, she would fry some chicken. 16 Man, she was a good chicken fryer. 17 we got married: 18 relationship, because she was a damn good cook. Not because of the sexual 19 Well, gentlemen. 20 MR. ARNOLD: 21 22 23 24 25 But that's why Thank you so much. ***** � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource City of Lawrence Fair Housing Ordinance 50th Anniversary Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Discrimination in housing -- Kansas -- Lawrence -- History African Americans -- Segregation -- Kansas -- Lawrence -- History Lawrence (Kan.) -- Race relations -- History Description An account of the resource <p>On July 18, 1967, Lawrence mayor Richard Raney signed into law Ordinance 3749, which provided fair housing protections to the citizens of Lawrence and predated the passage of the federal fair housing ordinance by almost a year. The purpose of this oral history project, sponsored by the City of Lawrence to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the ordinance, is to document and capture the memories, roles and issues surrounding the passage of Ordinance 3749.</p> <p>In May 1961 the Lawrence City Commission established an interracial Lawrence Human Relations Commission (LHRC) to “further amicable [race] relations” and “investigate…practices of discrimination” within the city. Separately, in 1964 various community organizations, including the NAACP and church groups, formed the Lawrence Fair Housing Coordinating Committee (LFHCC). Working together, the LHRC and the LFHCC submitted a proposed fair housing ordinance to the Lawrence City Commission in April 1967 seeking to address discriminatory practices in the sale and rental of homes in the city that effectively perpetuated patterns of racial segregation. Although strongly opposed by the Lawrence Real Estate Board representing local agents, the Fair Housing Ordinance passed the city commission on July 18, 1967. As its stated purpose the ordinance aimed “to provide for the general welfare of the citizens of Lawrence by declaring discriminatory practices in the rental, leasing, sale, financing or showing and advertising of dwelling units, commercial units or real property to be against public policy, and to provide for enforcement thereof.”</p> <p>Approval of Lawrence’s Fair Housing Ordinance predated the signing of the Federal Fair Housing Act by nine months and preceded passage of the Kansas Fair Housing Act by nearly three years. This landmark piece of civic legislation, promoted by a diverse group of concerned residents of a university town that viewed itself as an example of American values to outsiders, including foreign students, and aspired to embody the ideals of its Free-State legacy, addressed discriminatory practices in housing, providing means for victims to seek redress and imposing penalties on violators. The origins, development and importance of this citizen-inspired movement warrants examination and interpretation as the city approaches the 50th anniversary of the passage of the Fair Housing Ordinance of 1967. <br /><br />Interviews for this project were conducted by Thomas Arnold in the summer and fall of 2016.</p> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available City of Lawrence (Lawrence, Kan.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016 Relation A related resource <p>Click <a href="https://soundcloud.com/lawrenceksaudio/sets/50-years-of-fair-housing-in">here</a> to access the audio recordings of the interviews in this collection.</p> <p>A selection of the interviews were also recorded on video. Click <a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzt8e_efB6wWS-BHMpGWKW46fyHPtfKPZ">here</a> to access the video recordings of the interviews in this collection.</p> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Arnold, Tom Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Milan, Jesse Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Jesse Milan Subject The topic of the resource Discrimination in housing -- Kansas -- Lawrence -- History Segregation -- Kansas -- Lawrence -- History Lawrence (Kan.) -- Race relations -- History Ordinance 3749 (Lawrence, Kan.) Jayhawk Plunge (Lawrence, Kan.) National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (Lawrence, Kan.) Description An account of the resource Oral history interview with Jesse Milan, who was a teacher in the Lawrence public schools and the president of the Lawrence chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) at the time that Lawrence's fair housing ordinance was passed in July 1967. This interview was conducted by Tom Arnold on October 21, 2016, as part of the Lawrence Fair Housing Ordinance 50th Anniversary Oral History Project. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Milan, Jesse Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Lawrence Fair Housing Ordinance 50th Anniversary Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available City of Lawrence, Human Relations Division (Lawrence, Kan.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 10/21/2016 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Arnold, Tom Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This Item is protected by copyright and/or related rights. The public may freely copy, modify, and share this Item for noncommercial purposes if they include the original source information. For other uses you need to obtain permission from the rights-holder(s). Relation A related resource <p>Click <a href="https://soundcloud.com/lawrenceksaudio/jesse-milan-leveled-audio?in=lawrenceksaudio/sets/50-years-of-fair-housing-in">here</a> to listen to the audio recording of this interview.</p> <p>Click <a href="https://youtu.be/EocwV5K9Vkc">here</a> to view the video recording of this interview.</p> <p>The Spencer Research Library at the University of Kansas is the official repository for this collection of oral histories.</p> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MilanInterview102116.pdf (transcript) Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence (Kan.) 1946 - 1967